Hi Neli

Remember you are still going to plaster on top of the shell, and that is going to be roughly around 50mm think I would imagine.

I went around 100 - 150mm thick and with plastering and cladding etc my walls appear way over 300mm thick.

So 100mm is more than enough as Colin mentioned, but then again it is how you do it, enough rebar reinforcement and wire mesh etc and you would have a very solid structure that is fine at around 100mm.

Just worried at 250mm on the walls that the top would have too much weight for the base, so would have to do it in stages perhaps where the the side wall base is steady enough.....just and idea, not sure what Colin has to say.....all I know is I was told when doing mine thjat best to get the shell done in one movement at the same time/day

Cliff wrote:

Hi Neli


Just worried at 250mm on the walls that the top would have too much weight for the base, so would have to do it in stages perhaps where the the side wall base is steady enough.....just and idea, not sure what Colin has to say.....all I know is I was told when doing mine thjat best to get the shell done in one movement at the same time/day

It will be fine to cast a slab or the base of your pond and then build your walls on the slab. Remember to cast your base bigger than the actual size of the pond so that the walls are not resting on the edge of the base (foundation). If you cast your starter bars (reinforced steel in a L shape cast into the base going up into the cavity of the wall) into the base there should be no problem.

As a matter of interest, foundations on a factory is no more than 700 - 800 x 250 - 300. If you have well compacted stable soil that is consistent in the full length of the foundation it is not even necessary to use steel. The walls of the factory can be 6m plus high and at time can be two or three stories, now if you can imagine the mass or force on the foundation that is only 700 wide and stands up to what is built on it.

Now if we take a pond you have a base of what ever the size of the is to be, let's say 4m x 2m. We have now a 4 x 2 reinforced concrete slab so the downward force is spread over a much larger area. It is similar to driving a 12mm steel bar into the ground with a 5kg hammer and then trying to drive a 100mm steel bar into the same ground with the same hammer. Hope this helps.

Cliff wrote:

Hi Neli

Remember you are still going to plaster on top of the shell, and that is going to be roughly around 50mm think I would imagine.

I went around 100 - 150mm thick and with plastering and cladding etc my walls appear way over 300mm thick.

So 100mm is more than enough as Colin mentioned, but then again it is how you do it, enough rebar reinforcement and wire mesh etc and you would have a very solid structure that is fine at around 100mm.

Just worried at 250mm on the walls that the top would have too much weight for the base, so would have to do it in stages perhaps where the the side wall base is steady enough.....just and idea, not sure what Colin has to say.....all I know is I was told when doing mine thjat best to get the shell done in one movement at the same time/day

I am scared to go bellow 20cm...and my walls will be 40 cm thick unplastered...2 parallel lines of 6" blocks with 10cm space in between full of concrete...and steel inside...
About plastering I saw somewhere on the net that it is better to do two thin plasters than one thick one...so My plaster will not be more than 3cm...if I apply two coats of it.
But I will fill the pond inside in order to make the bottom round and sloping.
Cliff thanks for the advise...
I suspect the wait of the walls will not be too much for the floor to support them...look at double story buildings...

Colin Hunt wrote:

Cliff wrote:

Hi Neli


Just worried at 250mm on the walls that the top would have too much weight for the base, so would have to do it in stages perhaps where the the side wall base is steady enough.....just and idea, not sure what Colin has to say.....all I know is I was told when doing mine thjat best to get the shell done in one movement at the same time/day

It will be fine to cast a slab or the base of your pond and then build your walls on the slab. Remember to cast your base bigger than the actual size of the pond so that the walls are not resting on the edge of the base (foundation). If you cast your starter bars (reinforced steel in a L shape cast into the base going up into the cavity of the wall) into the base there should be no problem.

As a matter of interest, foundations on a factory is no more than 700 - 800 x 250 - 300. If you have well compacted stable soil that is consistent in the full length of the foundation it is not even necessary to use steel. The walls of the factory can be 6m plus high and at time can be two or three stories, now if you can imagine the mass or force on the foundation that is only 700 wide and stands up to what is built on it.

Now if we take a pond you have a base of what ever the size of the is to be, let's say 4m x 2m. We have now a 4 x 2 reinforced concrete slab so the downward force is spread over a much larger area. It is similar to driving a 12mm steel bar into the ground with a 5kg hammer and then trying to drive a 100mm steel bar into the same ground with the same hammer. Hope this helps.

Hi Collin,
We must have posted at the same time...
Thanks for the advise...I understood everything.At first I wanted to put the bars on the floor L shaped...then I thought there will be no steel in the 20cm concrete outside the pond walls...Proper panic mechanic I am...
But if u say L shaped is OK, I can do it like that...
I was planning also to back fill with concrete, at the bottom between the soil and the walls for 30cm...Now from what U are telling me I might not need to do that...
I left 20 cm outside all around where the walls should be...so That I have done...
Today I glued the pipes for the BD...only...I can not find anywhere 4" bends and T without rubbers...big headache...but found 45* 4" bends so maybe will use that...but T I have not found...only with rubbers and that I dont want to use.
If I see that this bars are hard to bent straight, into L...can I cut separate peaces for the walls and stick them in the soil where they are supposed to be, and then poor the concrete for the floor over them...I can tie them to the foundation steel...
I plan to tie the Y12 into squares with wire...Is that OK, or I should weld it...I have a welding machine...

Neli, you are building a pond not a battle ship.

The starter bars should be cast in the base and up into the walls. Don't you have an engineering workshop there or a steel merchant that does all the cutting and bending for you?

You can bind all the steel with wire, not necessary to weld. Neli my swimming pool is 80 000 l was constructed using Y10 bars and 100mm gunite and is 32 years old and still standing, no leaks, no cracks.

Hi Collin,
I bought already everything...The way U are telling me...I can build 2 ponds with the materials I bought...Maybe I do just that?
What do U think? The question is do I need another pond???
Or maybe extend this one????make another one next to it...at a lower level...I think my filters are also too big...can manage 2 ponds...and I can put the males and females separate???
Maybe I just build one wall with 6" blocks and put gunite like on the inside...reinforced with the hiway mesh??? then I will have materials left for a second pond??? Or maybe leave the materials that are extra and redo the old pond?
I was just scared not to mess up again...
We have, but to carry them back to a workshop is a headache...I have a grinder. I will cut them my self.

What do U say? I just build one wall with 6" blocks filled with concrete and brick force under the blocks....then put the mesh on the inside...and throw a 10-15 cm wall od sand and concrete on the inside????then plaster it...I can reinforce the corners with pillows of steel...will that be enough? Then I brake the old pond and redo it??? with the remaining materials...
Will that be OK?

Hi there all and Neli ,

Neli like ur new pond that you are start building now.

It is hard work.

Good luck and with everything

Regards

Quinten

quinten wrote:

Hi there all and Neli ,

Neli like ur new pond that you are start building now.

It is hard work.

Good luck and with everything

Regards

Quinten

Thank U my Darling!
It is hard for sure...today I was setting the first row of blocks...managed to do only 4 corners on the outside...I am maybe a perfectionist...or silly or both..
Kiss GR and Mama GR.

I had drama yesterday. the worker keeping the cement has been stealing it...when I asked him about the cement missing, he decided to run away...stepped on my BD filter pipe exit, broke it, the broke the pipes for the bakki, dropped down the pipes for the bakki, broke them...in order to jump on top of the fence and over the electric fence....
the whole day gluing pipes again...
Did not take pictures of the pond but some places is 3 blocks up.
this bricklayers are a pain in the .... need to check each block after them...they are so useless.
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thats bad luck Neli......hope you come right soon!

Sorry about that Neli ,

You need to get urself a gun and shoot them LOL


Regards

Quinten

Cliff wrote:

thats bad luck Neli......hope you come right soon!

It was not too much...4 bags of cement and 4x12m Y12...I am lucky I got him on time...it could have been more.
Thanks Cliff!

quinten wrote:

Sorry about that Neli ,

You need to get urself a gun and shoot them LOL


Regards

Quinten

Darling,
I have a rossi 38 special and a shotgun.I left him with the foreman so that the foreman can put some sense into his head.Told him work off the cement...but I want U to admit...and apologize.Now he is so terrified of me that he decided to run away.
I am a sniper...Won the competition at the police academy...both ak 47 and G3...bit every one...including the instructors...I have grown with guns...from a child...My dad is a European champion sports shooting with pistol.
He is late now, but that was his hobby.

Some progress today
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Put the mesh today
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Lowered the pipe for the BD filter also...will dig it in on monday.
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Finished the 3 outside walls.
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Very nice so far Neli, thanks for sharing.

Thanks Colin...There is some plaster that dropped in the space between the two walls. I told them to clean it tomorrow. I guess it is not as strong as concrete and will weaken the pond...
Also someone told me to sandpaper the pipes , put chicken wire around and put them in concrete, just in case the leak...What do u think?

Ur ond are looking good so far Neli


Good luck for the rest


Regards

Quinten

Things coming together now Neli. What will you use to seal the pond? I'm busy sealing my new selling ponds with Cemflex from Sika, what a nice product.

Miya Oki Koi wrote:

Things coming together now Neli. What will you use to seal the pond? I'm busy sealing my new selling ponds with Cemflex from Sika, what a nice product.

How do U use that and how much it is ...roughly if U can estimate per m2. I would be grateful.
Neville sealed his with rubber paint....very cheap and easy to apply...Widely used in the USA.
I have the details if U need them.

quinten wrote:

Ur ond are looking good so far Neli


Good luck for the rest


Regards

Quinten

Thank U Q! Dont deviate from the topic. He he he!
I want to see what U bought at the show...

Hi there Neli ,

I didn`t wanted to buy any kois , but my father in law that past away this year wanted a black and white koi (Shiro Utsuri).
So my mother in law got one , and the my wife got a Kohaku and i took one to will post some pics.
They are all in QT tank.

Then i just got some koi food and i smaller net and a spawn brush.

And got my wife a Bonsai to ........... Not to sure the name of the Bonsai will post pictures tonight under the 2012 KZN koi show.


Regards

Quinten

That is fantastic Q,
to involve your women in the hobby. Brilliant! U get new fish for free! And they look after them when U are busy! He he he!
Wish more men will do that!
The bonsai is a great idea too. It becomes a joint activity and bonds the family.
I am so proud of U!