Hi All,
I have a +-70cm Ogon, which has always been a bit bloated on it's left side. It is very friendly and eats very well. (it has been named "Fatty" by the family) This summer the bloating has gotten allot worse, is seems to reduce in the winter, and the fish is spending alot of time lying on its side on the bottom.

What can I do to help / save this fish. This is the first time that the fish has shown discomfort due to what I assume is the bloating.

Hope you can help.

Brandon

Hi Brandon

Welcome to the forum.

Could you possibly post a photo as it can be various problems, but not one of the common problems.

Brandon,

If I would guess, the fish have a tumor.
Firstly the bloat on the side is not normal. I also think the fish is a female, from there the bigger bloat during summer due to the eggs.
During winter the eggs have been absorbed by the fish.

Normally such a tumor if it is not a distress to the fish are left alone, but in you case it seems to me that the tumor started to grow bigger and is now cause pressure on the swim bladder of the fish.
That is indicated by the fish is lying at the bottom of the pond.
An infected swim bladder causes the fish to lose its “balance” in the water.

I would think that it is too late to save this fish.

I know the feeling . . . so maybe you should try the following:

Separate the fish (quarantine pond)
Slowly raise the water temperature to above 20*C to about 25*c and add salt, at 6kg/1000lt water over a period of one week.
You may ad 30g terramycin/ 1kg food if the fish is still feeding.

Good luck

Thank you for the feedback...

I will try to post a picture of the fish when I get home.
The fish is still the biggest eater in the pond, but sometimes when I get to the pond I think that it is dead, as it is lying on its side on the bottom and not moving. When I am ready to go and fetch a net, to take the dead fish out, it spots me and swims normally...

Hi Pieter,

Thank you for the advice. Unfortunately I dont have a quarantine pond...
What is the reason for raising the waters temperature?

Would it help to add salt and give the fish treated food, in the main pond?
Like I said Fatty is our tamest fish, so I could feed him by hand to ensure that the other fish do not eat the treated food.

I appreciate the advice, Fatty is one of our pets.

Hi Brandon

I am sure it is an ovary tumor.

If I was you I would have a Vet have a look at it maybe they could remove the ovary.

Sorry

Yes, I would go long with a tumor.

Egg bound is usually a even swelling as poopsed to a swelling on one side.

Very nice fish. Well looked after. It's a lousy part of koi keeping loosing fish.

Personally I would not fiddle with the environment of the pond. Leave alone as a fish in this condition has obviously been raised in good conditions.

You could spend alot on money having the tumor removed with a recovery rate that is not very good.

Or perhaps let nature take its course and purchase two new very good quality Ogons for the price of the operation.

Chris

Hi Chris

Sound advice

I believe there are three possibilities. Egg bound, Tumor or Dropsy causes swelling on the one side.

When a fish is egg bound, it normally creates a swelling below or on both sides, but can also cause a swelling only on the one side.

If the swollen area is soft, it is probably unreleased eggs. If he area is hard, it is more likely to be a tumour but in some instances, the affected area on an eggbound fish can also be hard.

If it is eggbound, an hormone treatment and raising of temperature migh force a spawning or release of eggs. In some instances, the eggs can be released with pressure.

If it is a tumour, the only real solution would be an operation, but I agree with the posts above that it would be better to let nature takes its course and save the money to buy another top quality Ogon. Infection migh be caused by an op and you might loose the fish anyway.

The fish can still live many years with a tumour.

Although dropsy often causes a swelling like this on the one side, the scales would probably have been raised which is not the case. I don't think it is dropsy, but it still might be. The only treatment for dropsy is a high concentration of salt and Acraflavine, although the success rate is fairly low.

Further to my last post, I also have an Ogon with a bloated area on the belly and on the side.



The fish had no eggs and got stuck in the skimmer box. After I released her, within an hour I started to notice the two swollen areas.

So, it can't be Egg bound, Tumour or Dropsy. It was caused by a physical injury while struggling to release itself.

Brandon,

By rising the temperature will help the immune system of the fish; in low temperatures the immune system becomes less efficient.

To add salt at the rate of 6kg/1000lt to your pond could stress the other fish and it could also have an effect on your biological filter.

Adding terramycin to the food for all you fish, you should only feed them once a day; in a quarantine pond you may feed it continuously.

The next thing that will happen is that the fish, with winter coming it could cause the fish to developed ulcers, from lying on the bottom of the pond.
As the tumor grows bigger kidney problems could occur, which will lead to kidney failure and dropsy.

Regarding an operation I would think that it will not be successful. If the tumor already infects the swim bladder, you can be assured that it already intertwines with the other organs of the fish.

A Tumor (5cm x 12cm)


Be kind and put the fish to sleep.It will not last this winter!

Sorry.

Pieter J de Villiers wrote:

You may ad 30g terramycin/ 1kg food if the fish is still feeding.

Hi Pieter

Ek merk dat jy 30 g terramycin / 1 kg kos aanbeveel. Ek het bietjie gaan rondsoek om die korrekte dosis te kry en merk dat die meeste internet sites tussen 2.7 g en 7.5 g aanbeveel. Is 30g nie 'n bietjie baie nie? Die aanbevele dosis direk in die water is 50g / 10 000 liter.

Paul,

as jy verwys na die vis formule van terramycin kan dit wel so wees.

Ek het weer met Mike Milani (een van die oudste telers in SA) gepraat en dit bly geen skade te doen as die Koi al reeds groot is nie. Volgens Mike gooi hy 30g/1000lt "gewone" terramycin in die water waar klein of "fry" probleme ondervind word.
HY praat ook van 3g per 1kg "paste" vir die fry.

Wat die 30g/1kg aan betref, ek gee dit alreeds die afgelope 3jaar vir my vis, net na die Winter voordat ek met my "Garlic" voer begin.

Ek het nog geen probleme ondervind nie.

Hi All,

Thank you for the information. She seems to have survived the winter, the swelling has increased a bit but I have been watching her carefully and she is still eating well and has no sores on her body.
She actually does not lie on the bottom, she "floats" on her side in the water, normally above the bottom drain.. She is floating swolen side towards the bottom of the pond, so I assume that it is the weight of the tumor causing the imbalance and not dropsy...

I have come to terms with the fact that she will have to be "euthenaised" but I will wait untill she stops eating or develops external wounds....

What do you guys think?

It is such a nice fish. If you have pond space, keep her and see what happens. If not or any signs of infection or other signs of health problems occur, euthanase.

Julle manne se raad is darem "WARM" duidelik baie ondervinding.
Dis wonderlik om te sien hoe die manne met ondervinding "Koi Keepers" op die forums wonderlik ondersteun met positiewe en goed bedoelde raad in belang van eienaar en vis.

Wil nie politiek begin nie, maar SAKKS skitter in hul afwesigheid daar waar ons met ons dag tot dag probleme worstel.

Uitstekende voorbeeld waar 'n handelaar en "Koi Mad Enthusiast" onbaatsugtig raad gee.

Well Done!!

Sonder julle sal ons nuwe groentjies maar baie foute maak en sukkel.

Hi Brandon, my sympathy with your Koi, she looks very well looked after.

LG

Hi Bobby,

Some help here please -

"Wil nie politiek begin nie, maar SAKKS skitter in hul afwesigheid daar waar ons met ons dag tot dag probleme worstel."

Can you give me the correct translation of this sentence please. I understand the first part about not wanting to start politics but I am a little unsure exactly what was meant in the second part of this statement. Sometimes if you translate directly you miss the true meaning.

Also not wanting to start politics - but I am interested in exactly what was said.

Thanks,
Regards,
Chris

I believe it it not in the interest of the hobby to discuss any negative aspects of SAKKS (if any) and I would like to keep any stone throwing out of this forum.

So please guys, keep the forum on a positive note and no politics.

Good reply .... and a positive response.

Thats the way it should be. A gently guiding hand is necessary from time to time.

Pieter de Villiers sent me a translation - thanks.

Chris

Hi Guys,

Unfortunately I had to euthenaise "Fatty" on Friday, She had stopped eating and was not swimming properly anymore.

Thank you for all of your advice, it made it easier to make the correct decisions and saved me from spending a fortune on medication.

Regards
Brandon

Sorry Brandon, must have been a difficult decision to let her go, in the end in the best interest of your Koi