The Koi Forum

The place where koi hobbyist's and dealers meet
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log in  
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Keywords
SPOTS western pumps List nexus BLACK Chris Waterplants media cape drum lice electricity Bobby disease dropsy pump profidrum dealers spawn airlift shimmies filter supaverm Bead vacuum
Latest topics
» Help! What do o do with fry??
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSat Jun 01, 2019 2:34 am by Zombolina

» A magical Japanese garden
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeFri May 24, 2019 1:45 pm by atb tv

» Nogyosai Nagaoka koi show 2018 The vats part 2
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Nov 25, 2018 11:52 am by atb tv

» Nogyosai Nagaoka koi show 2018 the vats part 1
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Nov 25, 2018 10:58 am by atb tv

» Pump size relative to the rest of my equipment
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeFri Aug 31, 2018 10:04 am by Bilaal

» Off the grid
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSat Aug 25, 2018 5:53 pm by GREGB

» Japan souvenir 2017 part 1
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Jan 21, 2018 12:59 pm by atb tv

» Ikeage 2017 of 80cm+
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 1:58 pm by atb tv

» the ponds in 2017
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeTue Dec 26, 2017 3:14 pm by atb tv

September 2019
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
      1
2345678
9101112131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
30      
CalendarCalendar
Affiliates
free forum


Share
 

 Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
albie

albie

Posts : 317
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-03-31
Age : 58
Location : Kempton Park, South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 2:28 pm

I need advice please.

I noticed for the past week that this fish swam a bit "unbalanced". Caught him today and noticed the bloody spots on all the fins.

I haven't tested my water, but all the other fish are healthy. Is this fin rot? I leave tomorrow for the week, any shot gun treatment to advise for this afternoon??. Or should I get rid of the fish, not valuable, i think and approximately 15cm in size.


Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring IMGA0021

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring IMGA0023

I havent got quarantine facilities! What about a salt bath or PP??

Another question, but this is a topic all on its own- what should one do to clean the pond now before spring/summer? I will clean all the bio filters next week. Im just scared if I clean the pond with PP it will damage the bio filters

Thanks
Albie
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eugen

Eugen

Posts : 125
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-01-29
Age : 46
Location : Parow,Cape Town

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 3:44 pm

that looks like finrot to me you should put some malachite green on the affected areas and then some friars balsam(let it dry) to waterproof it.
Make sure your water is good with a few test.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
albie

albie

Posts : 317
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-03-31
Age : 58
Location : Kempton Park, South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 4:24 pm

Hi Eugen

Thanks for that

What I do have, is "Parasite cure" that contains 6m malachite green per 1ml and 40% formaldehyde. This is actually a pond treatment, with the dose 1 ml per 50 l (in other words 200 ml for my pond) Do you think I can paint this stuff on the fins as you suggest, or does one get it at a pharmacy in another concentration?Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring IMGA0024

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring IMGA0027

I have also got this Anti bac, what the content is, I do not know
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring IMGA0847-1

Thanks for your advice, will need to get this sorted out before tonight!!
Albie
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eugen

Eugen

Posts : 125
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-01-29
Age : 46
Location : Parow,Cape Town

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 4:31 pm

i'm not sure if you paint that on if it will welp but you can try ,do you have salt in your pond ?becareful of the anti-bac it may hurt your bio-filter.
You can make a PP paste put it on then cover with fiars balsam to water proof.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
albie

albie

Posts : 317
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-03-31
Age : 58
Location : Kempton Park, South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 4:42 pm

I don't have salt in the pond.

Does the Anti bac have PP in it? I f so, I had big problems in the past with PP and my bio filters. Dont think I will use it then.

So the option might be to paint the fins with PP paste and perhaps add the "parasite cure" to the pond. I dont think it will hurt? I know one should switch the UV off.

Just explain how to make the paste, the previous time the granules did not dissolve properly and it was a bit of a mess and I think too strong

What do you think?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eugen

Eugen

Posts : 125
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-01-29
Age : 46
Location : Parow,Cape Town

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 5:00 pm

just add very little water to pp and mix a bit till a paste then paint it on then cover it with fiars balsam .don't add anything to the pond yet and make sure your water is fine remember the golden rule you look after the water and the koi look after themselfs.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
albie

albie

Posts : 317
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-03-31
Age : 58
Location : Kempton Park, South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 5:12 pm

Thanks

Will wait till my wife comes home and then do it.

I planned to clean everything next weekend (the sand filter I do in any case weekly). Will test the water then (but my water has never really been a problem).

Do you add anything to your pond prior to summer to kill some hidden bacteria?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
wayneb

wayneb

Posts : 1745
Reputation : 29
Join date : 2007-12-08
Age : 41
Location : Kraai Fontein, Cape Town Metropol

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 5:23 pm

Finrot is caused by nasty bacteria, so you need an anti bacterial product.

First prize would be to quarintine the fish and threat it seperately with the Anti Bac product an alternative is to use a anti-bacterial topical solution like Methylene Blue and frairs balsam on the affected areas. PP and frairsbalsam will work but i dont know how effective its going to be in the long run.

DO NOT ADD ANY ANTI BACTERIAL PRODUCT TO THE POND WATER - IT WILL KILL YOUR FILTER.

The green bottle is M & F under another name. You can try and use that on the affected area aswell in a paste form but its more affective against fungus and parasites.

The Anti-Bac product is propably a Methylene Blue or Patasium product.


Last edited by wayneb on Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile Http://www.KoiAdventures.co.za
Eugen

Eugen

Posts : 125
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-01-29
Age : 46
Location : Parow,Cape Town

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 5:28 pm

Problem Is He Doesn't Have Malachite Green or Methylene Blue so best will be to use pp for now and not treat the pond only the infected fish seeing he has no Qtank.

don't add PP or any of the treatments to the pond just treat the infected area or you will kill you biofilter
Back to top Go down
View user profile
albie

albie

Posts : 317
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-03-31
Age : 58
Location : Kempton Park, South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 5:32 pm

I'm not too stressed to lose the fish. Unfortunately, this is what I currently have. I know I should get a quarantine facility....

I'll paint the PP paste on and cover with Friars balsam and see what happen when I return on Friday
Back to top Go down
View user profile
albie

albie

Posts : 317
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-03-31
Age : 58
Location : Kempton Park, South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 5:33 pm

How thick should the paste be, like a thick soup or thinner?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eugen

Eugen

Posts : 125
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-01-29
Age : 46
Location : Parow,Cape Town

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSun Aug 03, 2008 6:23 pm

well i would say this should be done every 2nd day to help ,it can be bit thinner than think soup.this is the time to learn for the cheap koi next time u know what to do with the $$$ one
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pieter J de Villiers

Pieter J de Villiers

Posts : 1383
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2007-09-17
Age : 68
Location : Krugersdorp, Gauteng,South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeMon Aug 04, 2008 10:13 am

Hi avz10,

Looking at the picture, the fin is not that bad.
If it is the only fish that is effected. You could make a salt paste and paint it onto the fin let it dry and return the fish to the pond. You can repeat this treatment every third day if necessary.
If there are more fish with this condition you should treat the pond.
First clean your sand filter thoroughly by opening it and turn the “sand” inside while it is back washed.
Ad 5kg salt per 1000lt to the pond over a period of 48 hours.
Run the water for 5 day without back washing it.
Bypass the sand filter on the six day, and ad 2,5g/1000 lt potassium permanganate to the pond water. The water will turn into a “purple” color.
Leave the pond water running (bypass sand filters) for three days or until the water turned brown.
Backwashes the sand filter and then run the pond water for 48 hours.
Again clean the sand filter by opening the lit and turn the sand while backwash it.

If there is any formalin or zeolite in your pond water DO NOT USE SALT.

Feed the Koi less food for the next two weeks, and test your water regularly, checking the ammonia and nitrite levels.

I don’t know the product “Parasite Cure” and “Anti-Bac” never worked for me in the past.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.ppsecurity.co.za
Admin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2521
Reputation : 46
Join date : 2007-07-25
Age : 57
Location : Cape Town

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeMon Aug 04, 2008 1:22 pm

Your fish is in the early stage of fin rot, the stage just before the fins actually start to rot.

It is caused by bacteria in your pond and you should lower your bacterial count immediately before it starts to affect your other fish.

You can do this by either using Potassium, Virkon S or Acriflavine.

You do not have to do a full treatment of PP, Virkon or Acriflavine. Do a half treatment purely to bring the bacterial count down. A half dosage will not affect your filters that much.

I do not know the anti-bac product. It seems to be blue in colour, in which case it is probably Methylene blue.

After bringing the bacterial count down, you should add salt as Pieter suggested at 5kg/1 000 liters. It will create a mucus coat around the fish and prevent further bacterial infection. It will also sterilize any wounds.

Now you have to treat the individual fish with a topical treatment. The parasite clear is not ideal because it contains formalin which is not a good topical treatment. Malachite green alone with Friars balsam to seal would be great. Alternatively use the salt suggestion of Pieter or do a salt dip. Monitor carefully, and if fin rot increase or spread, do a full Potassium treatment (3 to 4 treatments with a few days inbetween)

Another very good treatment for finrot is Acriflavine as a bath or indefinite treatment.

I would not use the "parasite cure". It contains formalin and should not be used with a high concentration of salt or in cold water. It is a parasite treatment and not for bacterial problems.

_________________
Paul Viljoen
E Mail: koi@absamail.co.za ; http://www.koionline.co.za

Koi are not my whole life but make my life whole
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.koionline.co.za
albie

albie

Posts : 317
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-03-31
Age : 58
Location : Kempton Park, South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeThu Aug 07, 2008 12:21 am

Thanks for all that. I'm not at home, so will check the fish on Friday. Will clean all the bio filters this weekend.

I had problems with a few of my fish earlier this year with the power cuts/surges (?anoxic brain damage??). This fish was one of them, but seemingly recovered. The one that was affected most, died. I attach the video of this fish:

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

So perhaps his resistance is still not what it should be. All my other fish are healthy.

Now my questions and comments:

1. I weekly backwash my sand filter (I open and stir)- one of those things I dont like, but do.

2. I'm happy to add salt at 5kg/1000l, but I do not normally have salt in the water. I have a small veg filter attached.

3. I always have a problem with PP, I used it last year for a few times, but then after a week or so had problems with water clarity. So if I use PP and the "normal" dose for my pond would be 25 gram(10 000l pond), should I use 10-15 g (halve the normal dose). What about my biofilters, should I bypass it for a few hours until the pink disappears or reverse it with hydrogen peroxide? (probably not). I can bypass the filters, except for one, but Im not sure how long can the water be stagnant in the bio filters.

4. Can one buy Malachite green and Achroflavine at a pharmacy?

5. As everything is expensive, as is this hobby, where can one buy/order water test equipment?

6. I'm in Bethlehem this week, is there a koi breeder/dealer I could visit to look at some fish?

7. A last question. I lost this koi ?Utsuri with the mouth ulcer- previous post (bought it from Sandton Aquatic.) Would like to get one of these again.
Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring IMGA0883

Thanks for all the support
Albie
Back to top Go down
View user profile
wayneb

wayneb

Posts : 1745
Reputation : 29
Join date : 2007-12-08
Age : 41
Location : Kraai Fontein, Cape Town Metropol

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeThu Aug 07, 2008 9:37 am

Sorry dont have answers to your question just wanted to say something about that video.

Was that during the power cuts this year? The poor fish, they seem to be swimming upside down and round-a-about. This must have been terrible to watch. Is your pond overstocked?
Back to top Go down
View user profile Http://www.KoiAdventures.co.za
Pieter J de Villiers

Pieter J de Villiers

Posts : 1383
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2007-09-17
Age : 68
Location : Krugersdorp, Gauteng,South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeThu Aug 07, 2008 11:08 am

Hi Albie,

By cleaning your bio filters or using PP you are going to lose same bacteria anyway!
Your calculations are correct; only make sure that your calculation regarding your pond volume is correct.
You should bypass the “vegetable filter” when using salt.
Yes, you can bypass all the filters when using PP, until the water turns “Brown”
If you follow my routine (previous post) you will not have any problems with water clarity.

You can purchase a test kit and other “poisons” from Sandton Aquatic, Pro Koi or Happy Koi.

Ok, the Koi in the video . . .
By the time of the video the Koi was already dying. The swim bladder was already damaged.
Swim bladder afflictions often occur secondary to other syndromes:
Pressure due to a tumor, constipation or swollen abdomen.
Systemic infection of different organs (via blood)
Obstruction between the intestine and the swim bladder or infection of the swim bladder.
Parasites, bacteria or viruses can also affect the swim bladder.
Sudden swings in water temperature, trauma or stress can cause problems regarding the swim bladder, which invariably leads to death.

When keeping Koi these things happen!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.ppsecurity.co.za
albie

albie

Posts : 317
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-03-31
Age : 58
Location : Kempton Park, South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeThu Aug 07, 2008 8:45 pm

Hi everyone

Will be home tomorrow and see what is going on!

Wayne, we were not sure what was going on, it suddenly happened after a power failure. I ended a big Kohaku's misery.

So Pieter, you are actually saying that this fish has been slowly dying since January- meaning I should probably put him out> Perhaps that will be the best. What methods do you do- just take them out or add something to water in a bucket??

Albie
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pieter J de Villiers

Pieter J de Villiers

Posts : 1383
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2007-09-17
Age : 68
Location : Krugersdorp, Gauteng,South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeFri Aug 08, 2008 11:25 am

Albie,

if you are in Gauteng, I am prepared to visit you and have a look see
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.ppsecurity.co.za
wayneb

wayneb

Posts : 1745
Reputation : 29
Join date : 2007-12-08
Age : 41
Location : Kraai Fontein, Cape Town Metropol

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeFri Aug 08, 2008 12:15 pm

Pieter J de Villiers wrote:
Albie,

if you are in Gauteng, I am prepared to visit you and have a look see

Hey, thats unfair Crying or Very sad You have never paid me a visited. lol!
Back to top Go down
View user profile Http://www.KoiAdventures.co.za
Pieter J de Villiers

Pieter J de Villiers

Posts : 1383
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2007-09-17
Age : 68
Location : Krugersdorp, Gauteng,South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeFri Aug 08, 2008 1:11 pm

affraid What a Face Shocked silent Embarassed pale SORRY Exclamation

You live in the wrong place tongue
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.ppsecurity.co.za
albie

albie

Posts : 317
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-03-31
Age : 58
Location : Kempton Park, South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSat Aug 09, 2008 3:13 pm

Thanks for all the replies!

Wayne, I don't think my pond is overstocked, although I haven't calculated.

This is just a hobby for me, and just recently starting to get very enthusiastic about it. I inherited the pond when we bought the house and could not even see the bottom of the pond! So I'm at this stage looking for interesting nice looking fish. Basically all the fish I've got, were bought when they were quite small, most are probably just pond fish! . So Pieter, if you are in the area and want to visit, I would really appreciate it. I'm at home from Tuesday until next weekend, even during the day. I live in Van Riebeeckpark, Kempton Park.

Getting back to the fish in question.

We don't know what happened in January, if it was a power surge or whatever. I lost the Kohaku and the one in the previous video survived. This is how she is swimming now:

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Th_MOV01215

I caught her today. It is quite obvious that she is deformed (body to the left plus a curve before the tail)

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring IMGA0032-1

The dorsal fin is also affected now

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring IMGA0035-1

And here is the tail fin-with residue from the PP

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring IMGA0029-1

All the other fish appear to be healthy. I think it is the January event catching up now.

Any advice, or should I put her out in case she infects the other?

(Pieter, I haven't start with salt- advise me what you think. Will clean all the filters this week)

Regards
Albie
Back to top Go down
View user profile
albie

albie

Posts : 317
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-03-31
Age : 58
Location : Kempton Park, South Africa

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitimeSat Aug 16, 2008 1:24 pm

To end off this story- Pieter visited yesterday and we decided that the fish is in a bad state, so that's done now.

My pond volume is only 7500l and he added PP- hopefully all the nasties are gone now.

Thanks Pieter!!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring   Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 

Fin problem/cleaning pond before spring

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

 Similar topics

-
» Spring Plants and cold temps?
» 34 Days Till Spring
» multiplier/potato onions
» vine tomatoes
» Fall Planting? When and What?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Koi Forum :: Koi health and diseases :: General diseases / injuries-