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 Wat kan verkeerd wees as die pens skielik geswel is?

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JC



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Wat kan verkeerd wees as die pens skielik geswel is?  Empty
PostSubject: Wat kan verkeerd wees as die pens skielik geswel is?    Wat kan verkeerd wees as die pens skielik geswel is?  Icon_minitimeFri Nov 19, 2010 8:57 pm

Ek het 'n vis in my dam waarvan die pens geswel is en die skubbe staan almal weg van sy lyf af. Dit het binne 'n dag gebeur, en vanaand toe ek na my visse kyk het een gevrek en is sy vinne wit en melkerig. Die opgeswelde vis leef nog maar lyk ongemaklik.
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Wat kan verkeerd wees as die pens skielik geswel is?    Wat kan verkeerd wees as die pens skielik geswel is?  Icon_minitimeFri Nov 19, 2010 10:00 pm

Dit klink na dropsy word ook pine cone disease genoem.

Dis wanneer die vis se ligaam nie van die vloeistof binne in hom kan onslae word nie. In ander woorde sy niere werk vir een of ander rede nie. Jy kan probeer om sout in die water tesit om die osmotiese druk teverlig om sy ligaam. Nie tafel sout nie. Pool Salt. 3kg sout vir elke 1000 liter water.

Anders as dit kan mens gewoonlike niks doen vir Dropsy nie.
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Marius Bezuidenhout

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PostSubject: Re: Wat kan verkeerd wees as die pens skielik geswel is?    Wat kan verkeerd wees as die pens skielik geswel is?  Icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 7:39 am

Dropsy klink vir my na iets wat amper onmoontlik is om gesond te kry, maar ek het al van mense gehoor wat Engelse sout gebruik het op goudvisse met sukses. As mens egter die internet verken dan is daar baie verskillende gevoelens hieroor.

Het iemand op die forum dalk ondervinding hiervan gehad???

Hier is 'n paar ''copy and paste'' artikels...

Dropsy is another name for bloat. A goldfish suffering from an advanced case of dropsy will puff up, and its scales will stick out like a pine cone. The causes can be varied, ranging from bacterial infections to viral infections or even parasites. The balloon-like appearance of the fish is due to swelling brought on by the kidneys filling with fluid. The damage at this point is usually beyond repair, but if you wish to attempt to treat it, using Epsom salt is a viable option. Epsom salt helps extract fluids into the stomach where they can pass, relieving the bloating.
Instructions
Things You'll Need:
• Hospital tank
• Epsom salt
1.
Set up a hospital tank the appropriate size for the sick fish.
2.
Remove the infected goldfish from the main tank and place it into the hospital tank.
3.
Add one-eighth of a teaspoon of Epsom salt per five gallons of water.
4.
Monitor the fish and repeat step three as needed when adding more water until symptoms improve.
5.
Return goldfish to original tank once dropsy is cured.


Read more: How to Treat Goldfish With Dropsy Using Epsom Salt | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5511323_treat-dropsy-using-epsom-salt.html#ixzz15ngYGkbc


But then you also get the following info…………….

Solar salt is regular sodium chloride... made from evaporating out the sea water leaving the salt residue. Solar salts usually have some beneficial minerals that are normally contained in sea water. If you see a bag of "solar salt" it will say something like 99.7% pure salt... the other .3% or so is the natural mineral content of the sea water and not harmful at all to our fish.

Epsom salt is actually magnesium sulfate and is only called "salt" because it fits within the generic definition of a salt. In chemists terms, a "salt" is a chemical compound that is formed by replacing all or part of the hydrogen ions of an acid with one or more cations of a base."

While we tend to think of salt as "table salt", in fact sodium chloride, just fits within the generic definition of "salt."

Magnesium sulfate is used in mammalian medicine to leach toxins from tissue. This is an osmotic ion transfer process that literally pulls the toxins out of the tissue. There is a long-standing and all together wrong old wive's tale that epsom salt will "cure" dropsy. This ain't the case, folks. Dropsy is not a toxin build up in the tissue and the osmotic/ion transfer process that allows epsom salts to work in mammalian tissue does not correlate to fish.

What epsom salts are good for is raising the GH levels in water. The formula for raising the GH levels with epsom salts is basically the same as using baking soda to raise KH levels... one pound of ES will raise the GH level 100 points in 700 gallons of water. This is not an exact formula but with GH, you only need to be close enough...

Where many go wrong with epsom salts is using it for the aforementioned dropsy treatment and killing the fish dramatically because of the rapid rise in the GH levels of the water. Goes back to my point about knowing the effects of chems and meds on the water before adding them.

The last point about epsom salts and GH levels is that the GH, which represents the permanent hardness or mineral content of our water, is achieved through magnesium content. While this is OK for most applications, it is not good for raising fry or building big fish as what these guys need is calcium for good bone development. So, as you consider adjusting the GH levels of your pond, consider your fish's calcium requirements first and then select the right additive for GH adjustment.

And………………..

> The trouble, is that dropsy is a symptom rather than a disease, so
> without root-cause, the cures are hit & miss. I reviewed that article
> and found that it was brief but well written. The author alludes to
> Epson salts as it *may* have some benefit. I'd be interested in
> Altum's opinion as I don't have a deep chemical/biological background.

The author of the Badman's article is confused about the differences in fish and mammalian kidney physiology. Freshwater fish kidneys do not play the same role in salt excretion as mammalian kidneys. Freshwater fish kidneys excrete mostly water and a bit of urea, and very efficiently conserve salts. Salts are absorbed (and excreted if necessary) through active transport across the gill membranes. The author's suggestion that 1/8 tsp of epsom salt/gallon of water could "extract water out of tissue" is patently absurd. 1/8 tsp/gallon is so far below the plasma concentration of salt in freshwater fish as to be negligible. As for his assertions about sodium, the only explanation I can suggest is that perhaps he dumped salt on a cory cat with dropsy and killed it?

The rationale for treating dropsy with salt is that the salt will lower osmotic pressure across the gill membranes, causing water to enter the fish more slowly and thus easing the burden on the kidneys. Problem is, this takes a lot of salt. 0.1% salt is probably the bare minumum to have an effect, and 0.3% (1 Tbsp/gallon) is better. If your sick fish happens to be brackish, half seawater is ideal. You cannot use epsom salts at these dosages. Even 0.1% (1 tsp/gallon) is a bit high for epsom salt and 0.3% epsoms will kill your fish.

[A side note about epsoms. Contrary to popular belief, epsom salt added to the tank gets into the fish when it drinks with a meal or from stress and is absorbed through the intestines. Epsom salt does NOT passively diffuse into the fish. Freshwater fish absorb dietary salt VERY efficiently. Add too much epsoms and your fish will consume a poisonous amount of it.]

There's not much written, but I wouldn't expect salt tolerance to be affected much by dropsy since it's a function of the gills rather than the kidneys. This means that IMO salting your tetras and cory cats beyond 0.1% is a bad idea. Salting salt-tolerant fish like livebearers, goldfish, killifish, or cichlids should slow water influx across the gills and may buy you some precious time for antibiotics to work or a virus to subside. Remember that you can overwhelm a sick, stressed fish by changing its tank conditions too fast. Always add salt gradually and watch the fish for signs of distress.

Remember that salt of any kind (epsoms, NaCl, sea salt) is not a cure for dropsy. All it can do is let you doublecheck that your fish isn't constipated and maybe buy you some time if it really is kidney failure.

> Note that large fish and small fish do not react the same to diseases,
> especially with dropsy symptoms which may have come on slowly. Small
> fish often die before you've had a chance to research cures or methods
> of euthanizing. Larger fish can live quite a long time (months).

Valuable larger fish (i.e. show koi or family pet oscars) can be treated by a vet. According to Untergasser and Manual of Fish Health, the best thing to buy time for a fish in kidney failure is aspiration of the excess fluid from the abdominal cavity with a syringe. A vet or someone trained in fish anatomy can do this procedure without puncturing internal organs. I wouldn't try it myself...
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JC



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PostSubject: Dankie   Wat kan verkeerd wees as die pens skielik geswel is?  Icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 10:38 am

Dankie mense, julle kommentaar was baie nuttig. My dam is in sy kinderskoene, en ek het baie om te leer. Smile
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