Green smelly water

Subject: Green smelly water Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:30 am

Hi all.
Im stuck once again with my pond
After struggling with my small filter set up i decided to redo the filter set up.
1 koi filter(similar to a pool filter) and 3 x 250 litre jojo tanks,a lor of plumbing anb replumbing later things were up and running. BIG SMILE
Doing regular water changes of aprox 10% per month every thing went honki dori.
...............until now. Lost 3 of my nicest fish.Strugling with green water i dasically rinsed cleaned all the filter matter in the pond,some water change of 60% .....and still no clean clear water. I though the rain would have a influance on that, doepa was added as wellto combat the green . Now weeks later the damn thing is still green and now its has an smelly odour to it(unless something died very close to the dam. Spoketo the local petshop in montana and the guy said i should test the nitrares in the water. Bought a kit and tested, reading 25mg/l .
What should the reading be? My pond is about 4000l estamated inc filter volume.
Advice would be much appreciated

Subject: Re: Green smelly water Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:28 pm

How much sun does your pond get and do you have any protection from the sun?

If you are in full sun and you don't have much protection in the form of shade or a uv light then you will be fighting a losing battle! The alge and fish will both be fighting for the oxygen in the pond.

Did you lose the fish before or after the massive water change? Did you dechlor after the change? A 60% change can easily wipe out a collection if not only cause severe damage.

Sounds like you may also be trying to many things at the same time! You should effectively be doing 10% a week, not a month? Those sand filters are a closed unit, so the debris that builds up in there needs to get out as soon as possible, a month down the line I would hate to think what is going on in there. Also how many fish do you have in total in your pond?

What is your turn over rate? What sort of pump do you have? Are you sucking via pond floor of surface?

Also with the new filtration setup, changing it all in one go will have a big knock on the system, so you need to take things slow when changing.

Just remember, clear water does not mean the water is healthy!

Subject: Re: Green smelly water Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:42 am

Hi Cliff
Thank you for responding to my question
The pond does have its fair share of shade during the day.
I lost fish before And after the water change,however i did dechlore the water.

Now i have learned that a water change once a month is not enough..
The new filter setup has been working for almost a year now, first problems i have encountered since completing the filters.The filter intake is being sucked from the bottom of the dam through a supply pipe with holes in them.

I had about 10 fish in the pond ...only 7 small (20-30cm) ones left.
I would like to get the water quality under control as i would really like to purchase good quality fish once i have mastered the water ..(might take forever by the looks of it)

With regards to testing water and test results...what would the perfect reading be for the different tests?

Posts : 449 Reputation : 14 Join date : 2008-04-02

Hi Martin,

There is more to this than meets the eye.

1) The nitrates are usually not a problem in koi ponds - unless you have wall-to-wall stocking densities - such as in commercial fish hatchery's. The nitrate levels you have in your pond are really not worth concern. When you nitrate level gets to well above several parts per million then you have to do something about it.

2) If any part of your system smells - a red flag should immediately go up. Something is wrong.

Any part of a koi pond which smells has hydrogen sulphide developing somewhere. This smells like rotten eggs. This is the origin of the smell. It is usually formed by anaerobic bacteria which grow in stagnant water. The accumulation of organics - such as dead algae - can develop into a sludge and the lower levels can be cut off from the oxygen in the water and go stagnant. Anaerobic areas can develop on the floor of ponds or in filters or in slow flowing pipes - anywhere.

Hydrogen Sulphide is highly toxic to fish in small amounts.

Can you give a brief description of your pump and filter system. This will help us to analyse the problem further. Also the circulation pattern in you water. Any sludge anywhere - especially on the bottom of the pond?

Testing the water - I think the system needs needs sorting out first. This usually is very simple and logical - when the facts are known. The the pond should really take care of its self with the proper maintenance. Test the water is not the critical part.

Regards,
Chris

Subject: Re: Green smelly water Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:18 am

Chris Neaves wrote:: Hi Martin,

There is more to this than meets the eye.

1) The nitrates are usually not a problem in koi ponds - unless you have wall-to-wall stocking densities - such as in commercial fish hatchery's. The nitrate levels you have in your pond are really not worth concern. When you nitrate level gets to well above several parts per million then you have to do something about it.

2) If any part of your system smells - a red flag should immediately go up. Something is wrong.

Any part of a koi pond which smells has hydrogen sulphide developing somewhere. This smells like rotten eggs. This is the origin of the smell. It is usually formed by anaerobic bacteria which grow in stagnant water. The accumulation of organics - such as dead algae - can develop into a sludge and the lower levels can be cut off from the oxygen in the water and go stagnant. Anaerobic areas can develop on the floor of ponds or in filters or in slow flowing pipes - anywhere.

Hydrogen Sulphide is highly toxic to fish in small amounts.

Can you give a brief description of your pump and filter system. This will help us to analyse the problem further. Also the circulation pattern in you water. Any sludge anywhere - especially on the bottom of the pond?

Testing the water - I think the system needs needs sorting out first. This usually is very simple and logical - when the facts are known. The the pond should really take care of its self with the proper maintenance. Test the water is not the critical part.

Regards,
Chris

Hi Chris
I have an external pump, koi filter (like a pool filter) and 3x 250L tanks before water return to the dam.
From the koi filter the water enter the first filter at the bottom ,exiting at the top and down again to the 2nd filter and so on until the exit to the dam.
I stopped feeding the fish as normal and only give a few pellets once a day.
After a week or so the water condition improved,it got a little clearer and the fish started responding to the food when feeding.
I still dont know what brought this on and any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thank You
Martin

Posts : 449 Reputation : 14 Join date : 2008-04-02

Hi Martin,
1) What size pump.
2) Do you back wash the sand filter regularly.
3) Does the sand filter smell at all - switch the pump off and open the filter. Put you hand in and feel the sand. Is it hard - sort of a hard crust. Scoop a little out and smell it.
4) What size sand do you have in the filter? Swimming pool sand is 1mm.
5) You only have 4000L in the pond - is that right? Then a swimming pool pump is far too large for your pond. It is probably pushing a lot of muck back into the pond. Where as a filter should trap the muck/dead algae.
6) Feed very little once a day until you get on top of the problem.
7) Increase you water changes to 10% per week.

I need to see your set up to get a better idea of what is going on.

More questions:
1) Have you introduced any new koi into you collection recently?
2) Is your pump on 24 hours a day?

Would you be able to send me some pictures of your pump. filter and pond?

Regards,
Chris

Subject: Re: Green smelly water Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:14 pm

Chris Neaves wrote:: Hi Martin,
1) What size pump.
2) Do you back wash the sand filter regularly.
3) Does the sand filter smell at all - switch the pump off and open the filter. Put you hand in and feel the sand. Is it hard - sort of a hard crust. Scoop a little out and smell it.
4) What size sand do you have in the filter? Swimming pool sand is 1mm.
5) You only have 4000L in the pond - is that right? Then a swimming pool pump is far too large for your pond. It is probably pushing a lot of muck back into the pond. Where as a filter should trap the muck/dead algae.
6) Feed very little once a day until you get on top of the problem.
7) Increase you water changes to 10% per week.

I need to see your set up to get a better idea of what is going on.

More questions:
1) Have you introduced any new koi into you collection recently?
2) Is your pump on 24 hours a day?

Would you be able to send me some pictures of your pump. filter and pond?

Regards,
Chris

Hi Chris.to answer your questions

1) .75km spec pump
2) yes at least every 3rd week
3)No the sand doesn't smell,and was cleaned about 2 weeks ago.
4)Stone size4-10 mm
5)As explained in my pm the water volume coming from the pump is split...to the filters and volume controlled by a valve/tap. Other side back to pond via a pool leave skimmer, also controlled by a valve/tap
6) Feeding less frequently for about a week now
7) thanks will do so.

Battling to get pics loaded....

>>NEWS flash<<
one of my fish has spawned...what now?
What to do?
This is a total surprise to me

Regards
Martin

Posts : 449 Reputation : 14 Join date : 2008-04-02

Hi Martin.

The pump size relative to your filtration is out. The pump is far too big. It will push the water through the filter and a lot of the muck back into the pond. This not the end of the world.

You could try to use 3 - 5 mm gravel in the sand filter. Available from a lot of pool shops. This will assist with filtration - especially the mechanical filtration. the 5 - 10 mm gravel is too be and the solids will go back into your pond.

You could carry on using the large pump and build a stream/waterfall to utilize the massive water flow. Nothing wrong with a large flow rate in a koi pond. Actually the faster the turnover rate in a pond the better. So part of the water goes through the filter and part of the water goes to the waterfall/stream instead of straight back to the pond.

Spawning: This usually messes up your water quality. And only a few weeks ago I came across a koi keeper - with really lovey koi - who had a mass spawning in his large pond. He did nothing about it and he lost all his koi. About 100 koi from 35cm upwards.

So in your case to bring the water quality under control, daily water changes for about a week. Or alternatively (as you only have 4000l) do a 80% water change. Large water changes must have sodium thiosulphate add when the new water is added in. If you do not do this the chlorine in our tap water will burn the gills and all the koi will die.

Use sodium thiosulphate at a rate of a teaspoon per 1000L That's 5g per thousand liters. If you do not have or cannot get give me a ring and I have some here in Randburg you can have.

The water changes can be effected by back washing daily. This way you will clean the filters and the new water, which is good for the fish, gets added to the pond.

One of the signs that the water quality is deteriorating is the development of a scum on the surface of the pond.

Don't wait too long because the spawning has added a lot of ammonia etc to the pond.

Question: Does the food you feed smell bad? Or have a furry mold on it? Or has it got damp?

Regards,
Chris