Hi ... I am a new guy here ... this is my story ... as posted on another forum.

From the day that I moved into my new Study and looked through the window I knew that I wanted a Koipond. The lawn are was just way to big and during Winter it looks like a semi desert. The half dead grass is depressing to say the least and I wanted to reduce that dramatically.



The large open lawn is visible here and it is obvious that there is a lot of maintenance involved in this area. We have problems during the hot summers to keep the grass wet due to the gravel nature of our soil plus we have huge problems with ants. To me it was obvious, the grass must go.

Early October 2006 was the day things started happening. Unaware of the snags that lies ahead I set the ponds out.



I am now putting more energy into the project and would like to get it done by the end of May 2008.

I am very anxious now to complete because I am sure it is going to be stunning once done. The breeding kingfishers stopped all work for the whole summer.

Some background on the pools ...

Pool 1 = 56,000 litres
Pool 2 = 67,000 litres
Pool 3 = 42,000 litres

Pool two is the really deep one ... over 2 metres.

All pools have straight down edges with no wading opportunities for big wader birds.

I did get quotes initially and the cheapest one came in at just under R190,000.00 ... after a loud fart and two beers I said F---k that. I started to phone some of my friends in the construction business and made my calculations.

Up to this stage I am still under R15,000.00 and that includes the little mixer I bought. My estimates makes me believe the ponds will come in under R30,000.00 and that will include two pums that will work in tandem and in shifts.

Fish will be no problem because I have some friends that breeds them for export and has vast dams ... I will get their rejects Wink

The pond furthest away is the smallest and is also quite shallow ... less than hip deep ... this whole pond will be turned into a marshland vegetation pond and I will stick it well with guppies and small kurpers. I expect this pond to be a paradise for birds.

I will also include some kurpers in the other ponds to help with the algae and at the same time will be a good source for some fish for the table.

Tips and tricks on kois are welcome.

I spent a long time reading and talking about filtration and the options offered ranged from easy to expensive Wink ... my advantage is that I do not have a space problem and that is why I built the vegetation pond as big as I did. 45,000 litre capacity and this is where I see my major filtration will take place. One huge bio filter in a sense. From this the water will overflow through a fitration chamber filled with normal shade cloth and then into the pump sump. Theoretically the sump will receive very clean and clear water. From here I will pump the water into two 1000 liter plastic tanks that is connected in serie. This is where I expect to sort the bacterial part of the filtration out because these tanks will contain bio balls. From here the water returns to the pond.

I am confident that the veggie pond will do the job because I have seen a few koi ponds with veggie filters 10% the size of what I am building.

Swimming pool filters were offered but they are expensive and takes a lot of maintenance and the fish water tend to clog the sand up rapidly.

My option is to have as much as possible bio filtration.

Yes all the ponds have a 110mm bottom drain. I cast the floors to have a sloped "sump" towards the drains.

Hi Colyn

I am impressed, would like to see the final product. You clearly did your homework and got away with a very nice setup at a steal.

I also believe that one does not have to spend thousands on vortex and kaldness systems, provided you have the space for natural filtration.

It just shows you at what profit margin some of the building contracters work.

Please keep us posted.

Going to look great.
Please keep us updated on the progress.
Very nicely done.

Hi,

Quote :

Work is standing because some Kingfishers made nests in the dam walls.

I wonder what is going to hapen to the poor Koi

They say Kingfisher's are part of the sit-and-wait predators, they have unbelievable patience, ooops!

Hi Colyn,

One of the things that has been upper most in my thoughts in my 37 years of koi keeping is to help koi keepers be succesful.

I suggest you discuss your set up with a wider range of people before you start the filtration. It could save you a fortune and a lot of headaches in the long run.

I agree you do not need some of the fancy commercially available sysems on the market. Your system is too big for this.

On your size pond there is only one option – build the filter system yourself. Purchasing filter systems will cost you a fortune and will in all probability be inadequate for the capacity.

1) I do not see the necessity of two 1000 litre tanks. What size piping will connect hese tow tanks. Your whole system is a biological filter (convertor) This includes the walls, floors etc. These two tanks will restrict your flow rates. In your system you need to have the maximum flow rate you can have to get as much of your water through the filter system in the shortest time. So some alternative chamber designs will work better. Even stone filter (correctly designed) will be cheaper and work better.

2) Ignoring the fish you have built an enormous organic farm. The amount of algae the will be produced in the ponds will surprise you. Where will it go? How will you eliminate it from the system? Settlement in the shade cloth netting is fine but it wherever the algae is it dies and decomposes. So without the fish you have literally kilograms of algae sitting somewhere rotting. This extracts oxygen from the system and adds ammonia.

3) Shade cloth netting works fine for a season or two. Then it clogs.

4) The veggie pond will work but will need maintenance in a few years time. The roots of plants collect the solids in the water. Over time in inner most parts get cut off from the water and go anaerobic producing a foul smell. This is hydrogen sulphide and is very toxic to koi in very small amounts. You will hav eto keep an eye on this over the years.

5) The placement of the bottom drains? The slope of the floor will not help much to move the settled solids out of the system – the movement of the water as well as the koi feeding on the bottom will do this for you.

6) Every part of your system needs to be designed to be easy to clean for the above reasons. This includes parts such as settlement chambers, discharge boxes etc.

7) The only way to clean a filter properly is to totally drain it and flush it out – this includes the bioconverters. You must be able to shut off the water flow and drain the chambers.

8 ) These principals apply to any size filters, of any design.

9) What size pump/pumps are you thinking of using? What size piping to and from the pond?

10) I presume the lowest pond will be a large collection dam? Each pond will overflow to the next? Where will the solids that are surfaced skimmed from each pond be removed from the bottom pond? If the bottom pond is not skimmed as well you will end up with a lot of scum and dust on the surface of the lowest pond.

11) Will you have a stream or waterfall to introduce oxygen into the water?

12) Just a thought on the size of your biofiltration (bioconverter). You want as much as possible. That’s OK but you have a very large capacity and unless you want hundreds of large koi in your system I suggest you place more emphasis on the mechanical side of the system. The reasons are simple. You want clear water to see your koi (and so do the birds). The biological part of the koi pond takes places everywhere not only in the filter chambers. Once going the biological part of a koi pond works easily and is very efficient at converting the ammonia from the fish and dead algae. This is provided the chambers as correctly designed. If more emphasis is placed on the mechanical side things like flow rates, maintenance, internal design of filter chambers becomes more important.

13) You have a wonderful opportunity because you are not limited in the space available for your design.

14) Where will the water drain to in the event of the pump/pumps shutting off? Is each pond or chamber interconnected? You have a natural slope which is great as it can be used for waterfalls and streams. But consider where the water will end up when the power goes off.

So I suggest you discuss your ideas a little more. Its much cheaper to use a few pieces of paper for diagrams and discuss ideas than to build and be sorry.

There are many solutions to the basic problems of a koi pond but you need to follow some basic principals in each and every step of the way.

I hope this helps.
Regards,
Chris

Hi Colyn,

Have you re-inforced each layer of bricks in the ponds. Will a single layer of bricks be strong enough to hol dthe water pressure of a large pond?

What will you be sealing the ponds with?

How the hang did a picture appear in the last post I made?

Regards,
Chris

Chris Neaves wrote:

How the hang did a picture appear in the last post I made?

Chris, you probably accidentally clicked on one of the Emoticons appearing on the left hand side of your screen when making posts. I have deleted it.

Quote :

I did get quotes initially and the cheapest one came in at just under R190,000.00 ... after a loud fart and two beers I said F---k that. I started to phone some of my friends in the construction business and made my calculations.

Up to this stage I am still under R15,000.00 and that includes the little mixer I bought. My estimates makes me believe the ponds will come in under R30,000.00 and that will include two pums that will work in tandem and in shifts.

I hate to be the Troll here...but i do not believe it. R 30 000!!! not a chance.

I build my 32 000L koi pond myself with some labourers of the street, no contractors and my pond of 7m long x 2.5m wide x 1.5m to 3m deep with all its filtration and water proofing worked out close to a R100 000. The construction of the physical body of the pond - the bricks, stone , sand, steel ,cement and labour was over R 45 000.

The glass fibre that i did myself was roughly R 8000. We havn't even added the pipes and bottom drains. 6m of class 12 110ml pipe was R 600...And i used 12 meters how many meters do you think he is going to need for thos 3 huge ponds!! And what about bottom drains? You need atleast 1 for every 10 000L and they go for R 300 each.....seriously i can't see this happening at that price. You must be getting most of the items at cost or cutting corners and leaving alot of the normal things required out.

OK, thats the end of my Troll part. Now let me try and ask some questions.

What size pump are you planning to put on these monster ponds? Remember you must try and circulate your water atleast every 2 hours!! and you have alot of water to circulate.

Something that i don't see in the discription above is a mechanical filter. How are you going to get the lose solids out to get the water clean?

UV lights - i understand that you propably think that you won't need any but it will be a while before the Veggie filter gets the green colour out.

Oxygen - How are you going to add oxygen into the water? Remember your veggie filter will use alot of oxygen during the night.


I think it is every koi hobbists dream to have a huge pond but the running cost would be to high for most of us.

Just my 2c...

[quote="wayneb"]

Quote :

I hate to be the Troll here...but i do not believe it. R 30 000!!! not a chance.

Well that is your opinion but the facts are in my bank ... what is important to note is that I am using the two guys that maintain my garden to do all the work. I hired a third guy for two months when there was a lot of digging. I have not included their salaries in my calculations because I pay them even if they are not building KOI ponds.

Quote :

I build my 32 000L koi pond myself with some labourers of the street, no contractors and my pond of 7m long x 2.5m wide x 1.5m to 3m deep with all its filtration and water proofing worked out close to a R100 000. The construction of the physical body of the pond - the bricks, stone , sand, steel ,cement and labour was over R 45 000.

I paid R7,400.00 for the bricks and R3.600.00 for sand and stone.

Years in the construction business have taught me that most projects are overspecced for no good reason. Instead of buying expensive grid mesh for the floors I opted for 2 layers diamond mesh. I have built many dams on farms and all have been done with "sifdraad" and I have never seen a failure.

Quote :

The glass fibre that i did myself was roughly R 8000. We havn't even added the pipes and bottom drains. 6m of class 12 110ml pipe was R 600...And i used 12 meters how many meters do you think he is going to need for thos 3 huge ponds!! And what about bottom drains? You need atleast 1 for every 10 000L and they go for R 300 each.....seriously i can't see this happening.

Well I am seeing lots of money here ...

1. I am not fibre glassing the pools.
2. Class 12 ... why ... your pumps must be monstrous stuff to generate 12 bar pressure.
3. Bottom drains are standard 110 mm storm water drains.

I only installed the drains for incase I want to drain off water without disturbing the fish. Gravity alone is ok but I will slide a normal irrigation pump's pickup down the drain pipe and suck that pond dry in 15 to 20 minutes if need be.

Quote :

You must be getting most of the items at cost or cutting corners and leaving alot of the normal things required out. Just my 2c...

Yes I buy wise and I am not allowing a salesman to tell me what he thinks is the best, I buy what will do the job.

I take serious offense in this ... "... cutting corners ..."

Just by looking at the scale of the project do you seriously believe I am a guy that CUTS CORNERS ?

I spent R5,200.00 this week on the pipes and the fittings and two pumps. I know the pumps may not be up to scratch in the long run but I am first going to see if they can cope. If they last for 60 days I will be happy because then I have a realistic indication of what is needed. Sometimes we need to see REALITY instead of working with theory ... the sheer size of my water complex will require "on site" experimentation.

By the time that I am pumping water I will sumarise the costs.

Thank you for your input.

@ Chris Neaves ...

Thank you for your input.

Let me try and answer some of the questions.

1. As for the problem of water levels when the pumps shut down ...

I have designed the overflow levels in such a way that if the system shuts down then the water will run to the final pond raising the level a bit. I think I have it almost right but obviously some tuning will be done to handle this. This was the main reason why I am pumping from the lower dam to the inlet at the first dam and I am not allowing the bottom drains to automatically operate. I am worried that if things go wrong in the bottom drains the ponds can run dry.

In a day or so I will post more shots to show more details of the technical structures.

2. I am a bit concerned about oxygen because of the size and I am taking note of what the plants will do at night. My biggest concern with too much waterfalls is evaporation. The Lowveld get extremely hot in summer and evaporation is going to play a role. Fortunately I do have room to expand and move the inlet back into the natural "koppie" to increase the number of cascades if need be.

3. I have bought two ESPA Vigilex 600M pumps for a start and the idea is to allow them to work in shifts with joint operation during the hours from 10:00 to 14:00.

Now off to some more general comments and issues ...

I am banking heavily on the vegetation pond to manage most if not all of my filtration and sanitation of the water. I am going to leave the 1000l tanks clear for a start and see if it works out. If I need some more help then I will start by putting bio-balls stuff in the first tank then. Any comments on this ?

I initially thought of populating the vegetation sort of freely in this pond but recently I am thinking of planting the soilbased plants in some sort of containers that could be removed if the pond needs some serious cleaning.

Comments on that ?

Something that is important to me is to get this system to be as natural as possible without becoming a pain in the neck on maintenance.

The vegetation pond will be stocked with tilapia and guppies ... I need fish that will eat insects and larvae because of the risk of malaria in this part of the world.

Any comments on that ?

I have been advised to add a few serious algea eaters in the ponds too ... comments on that please.

It is not my mission to breed or keep champion fish ... the risk of predation is just too high

Thanks for your comments.

Quote :

2. Class 12 ... why ... your pumps must be monstrous stuff to generate 12 bar pressure.

I picked this class pipe because i am not planning to dig up my poind in 5 - 10 years when the normal waste pipe collapses. I had a 10 000L pond with the normal 110ml waste pipe as bottom drain 1.5m down. After two years the pipes was bend oval by the shear weight of the ground and the pipe was already discoloured. I asked around and the normal waste pipe is not suppose to be used deeper than 80cm underground and it only has a lifetime expectency of 10 years or so....so i decided to use class 12 seeing as my bottom drains is 3m below the surface and i never ever want to dig my pond up to try and fix a leaky bottom drain pipe.

Look man it is great that you can build your pond so cheap, all i am saying is that it sounds to good to be true as most koi keepers build their own koi ponds and i am sure most of them will say that their ponds cost them in the region of atleast R 1,50 to R R2 per liter water.

Here is a copy of a post I did on my forum ...

Today I looked through my window ... I am busy building some Koi ponds in my garden and and I saw a pair of Brownhooded Kingfishers making a nest ...

This shot did not come out too well so I tweaked it a bit. It was too good to trash.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The following shots are untouched.

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"Sometimes we think that everything is a mess and life has lost it's meaning ...
maybe if we stood still and just observed we may find that life has a lot of meaning ...
it just remains for us to find it ..."


These birds do not eat fish but mostly insects and small reptiles.

These birds also nested in that unfinished pond ...



They also do not eat fish but their relatives will come once the fish are there

The image is incorrectly labeled Malachite ... it is actually a Pigmy Kingfisher.

Chris Neaves wrote:

Hi Colyn,

Have you re-inforced each layer of bricks in the ponds. Will a single layer of bricks be strong enough to hold the water pressure of a large pond?

What will you be sealing the ponds with?

Regards,
Chris

The bricks have a brickforce line in every second layer. With the ponds being in the ground and the backs well compacted I am confident the single line is enough ... fortunately the kois will not be making "bommies" in the ponds

This construction will not be strong enough for swimming by humans.

The ponds will be plastered and then sealed with a sealer ... andy suggestions ?

wayneb wrote:

Quote :

2. Class 12 ... why ... your pumps must be monstrous stuff to generate 12 bar pressure.

I picked this class pipe because i am not planning to dig up my poind in 5 - 10 years when the normal waste pipe collapses. I had a 10 000L pond with the normal 110ml waste pipe as bottom drain 1.5m down. After two years the pipes was bend oval by the shear weight of the ground and the pipe was already discoloured. I asked around and the normal waste pipe is not suppose to be used deeper than 80cm underground and it only has a lifetime expectency of 10 years or so....so i decided to use class 12 seeing as my bottom drains is 3m below the surface and i never ever want to dig my pond up to try and fix a leaky bottom drain pipe.

Look man it is great that you can build your pond so cheap, all i am saying is that it sounds to good to be true as most koi keepers build their own koi ponds and i am sure most of them will say that their ponds cost them in the region of atleast R 1,50 to R R2 per liter water.

Ok pipe deformation can be a problem if you are in clay/turf soil ... my environment is sandy/gravel and once the soil have settled the pipes should not be stressed by the soil.

I am not so sure about that quoted lifespan on the uPVC pipes. Biggest mistake that many make is to buy the khaki coloured one and then allow it to be exposed to the sun ... the white one is UV resistant ... the khaki one is for sub-terrean use.

I do expect that some serious challenges may emerge as time goes on but overall I think I have escape routes for most.

On your question about sealers:

Quite a lot of farmers only use salt in the plaster which is often sufficient to water proof.

My suggestion is to mix Sikalite or Coprox to your plaster combined with salt. If you add black oxide to your mix, you don't even have to seal, although it looks much better if you seal and it improves the waterproofing.

In respect of the sealer, you have three options in my opinion:

1. Acrylic non toxic water proof paints. There are quite a few on the market.

2. Butimine paints. They do not last as long but quite cheap.

3. Polyurerethane paints. The are much more expensive but very good. It is almost like a plastic layer. I use Durapond from Dura.

Thanks ... we will be sealing it with Coprox.

Very nice pictures

Here are some shots of the Vegetation pond ...

I spent the night reading a lot and one thing that became obvious ... advice on really BIG ponds are scarce.

The general information on filtering and water treatment is just not right for me and I am looking for people that have big ponds.

I am beginning to doubt if I will be able to get the correct water volume flow because to circulate my water volume in an hour will mean massive pumping

Any advice will be appreciated.

Colyn,

Sorry to say, but that ponds are going to leak!!!!!!! The weight of the water alone will crack them!

Jeez ... your post really rattled me so I went back through the process and phoned a few friends ... the floors are re-enforced concrete of around 120mm and the soil in which the ponds are bedded is semi sandstone ... so the foundations is according to all information pretty stable. The walls have been backfilled and carefully compacted and every second layer is brick forced.

I am not too sure it will crack ... actually I am quite confident it wont.