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 Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision

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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 24, 2008 8:29 pm

Hi,
Question - did you cast the floors of the ponds in one go?

Using Coprox is a good idea. Leaks and cracks can be easily repaired.

In a large pond set-up you can get away with slower turnover rates. You will however need to make sure the cirulation within each pond is correct. i.e. each ponds inpurities will be eliminated and not re-circulated. Try to keep plants away from the koi. Koi love plants. They will chew them to bits, especially when they get bigger. Koi will pull the plants out of their containers and the soil will pollute the water making it difficult to see them. The suspended particles are difficult to get rid of.

Keep all your chambers open as much as possible to encourage water flow.

Make sure each chamber can abe cleaned easily.

Use large daimeter piping to and from the pumps to reduce frictional losses.

You can increase the effency of each chamber by getting the water to circulate within the chamber. A sort of vortex action. Place brushes or something similar against the walls to increase the surface area to trap the solids that will be spun outwards.

Do not worry about evaporation. Get waterfalls going. Even if you build a trickle tower/baki shower. You need to replace a certain amont of water each week. So if the water evaporates - no problem.

What is you water source - tap water or bore hole water.

Do you have a large garden to water?

Use barley straw to control the algae. Chemicals will become too expensive.

Perhaps it would have been a good idea to place plastic under your "streams" and just made a screed ontop. Long streams tend to crack. Even a very fine crack will lead to water loss.

You have wonderful bird life - be prepared to loose fish. The best ones are the ones to go first (I know from experience). If you cna create some balance between the bird life and you koi I think you have a wonderful pond in the making.

One other thought (for now) where does the rain water drain on the property? Will the pond get flooded?

Many more questions to come. But good luck.

Regards,
Chris
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 24, 2008 11:08 pm

Quote :

Hi,
Question - did you cast the floors of the ponds in one go?

Yes except the smaller pond ... we got violently interupted by a massive storm.

Quote :

Using Coprox is a good idea. Leaks and cracks can be easily repaired.

That is what I was told by a friend that is an engineer.

Quote :

In a large pond set-up you can get away with slower turnover rates.

I have decided that I will not worry now about the flow rates ... I will complete the ponds and check the flow rates in practice ... if it is too low then I will increase the pump capacities.

Quote :

You will however need to make sure the cirulation within each pond is correct. i.e. each ponds inpurities will be eliminated and not re-circulated.

Well the idea is that the water will end up in the vegetation pond and from there go through the shadecloth filter and then pumped back to the head. Does that seem right ?

Quote :

Try to keep plants away from the koi. Koi love plants. They will chew them to bits, especially when they get bigger. Koi will pull the plants out of their containers and the soil will pollute the water making it difficult to see them. The suspended particles are difficult to get rid of.

I have no intention of having any plants in the koi ponds ... I have been warned a lot about the problems with plants in the ponds.

Quote :

Keep all your chambers open as much as possible to encourage water flow.

Make sure each chamber can abe cleaned easily.

I will post more detailed shots of the two chambers.

Quote :

Use large daimeter piping to and from the pumps to reduce frictional losses.

The pumps are submersibles and they feed into 40mm ID pipe.

Quote :

You can increase the effency of each chamber by getting the water to circulate within the chamber. A sort of vortex action. Place brushes or something similar against the walls to increase the surface area to trap the solids that will be spun outwards.

I will see how the chambers work and keep you posted ... fortunately I have space if I need to expand with more chambers.

Quote :

Do not worry about evaporation. Get waterfalls going. Even if you build a trickle tower/baki shower. You need to replace a certain amont of water each week. So if the water evaporates - no problem.

I still have to construct the primary water starting point and will include as much as possible cascades in it.

Quote :

What is you water source - tap water or bore hole water.

Do you have a large garden to water?

I have a good borehole and over the past 15 years the garden has been tuned to be fairly conservative on the water. I have very few plants that needs lots of water and mostly indigenous stuff that goes with the flow of the environment. I think that is also why I have so many bird species in the garden.

Quote :

Use barley straw to control the algae. Chemicals will become too expensive.

Please explain this a bit better to me.

Quote :

Perhaps it would have been a good idea to place plastic under your "streams" and just made a screed ontop. Long streams tend to crack. Even a very fine crack will lead to water loss.

I will pay attention to this ... I have to construct the streams strong because there is a 100% chance that my dogs will get into it. Wink ... but I will heed to your advice and pay good attention to the construction.

Quote :

You have wonderful bird life - be prepared to loose fish. The best ones are the ones to go first (I know from experience). If you cna create some balance between the bird life and you koi I think you have a wonderful pond in the making.

I have decided that I will sort of use the vegetation pond as a decoy and will stock it well with smaller tilapia species and gold fish so that the birds can try their luck there. Wink ... with lots of water lilies and other plants the fish will have a chance.

The two ponds that are earmarked for the koi were made deep on purpose, one is 1.8m and the middle one is over 2 meters with straight sides that offers no wading opportunities. The vegetation pond is around 1.2m deep so herons etc. cannot wade there. I will keep an eye out for the kormorants and they will eat lead if they come to the garden.

One tiny worrying factor is the fact that we have some fish eagles on the farm and that might be a nasty experience if they decide to come and feast on the koi. However I have placed the ponds in such a way that I have limited the opportunity for a clean attack avenue and will complicate it more with pergolas if need be.

Quote :

One other thought (for now) where does the rain water drain on the property? Will the pond get flooded?

On this I paid special attention and the pond edges is raise above the surrounding land level to specifically keep stormwater and runoff out of the ponds. Final finishing of the edges is natural rock from the veld that is at least 150mm high and these will be cemented onto the edge to complete a waterproof ring around the ponds and also have around 50mm overhang on the pond side.

Quote :

Many more questions to come. But good luck.

Looking forward to it.

Than you very much for your input Chris.

My main objective is to make the ponds part of the environment and form part of the larger eco system.

You are welcome to go and look here ... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ... there is complete thread that contains shots of all the birds that I have photgraphed through my study window.
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Pieter J de Villiers

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Apr 25, 2008 9:11 am

Colyn,

ek is nie hier om jou bou werk af te kraak nie, maar ek wil jou graag help om nie na die tyd jou hare uit jou kop uit te trek nie!

Quote :
The walls have been backfilled and carefully compacted and every second layer is brick forced.

Dit is goed en wel, maar op 'n enkel muur van 4 " is " brick forced" van geen waarde, en dit werk dus tien keer beter op "n dubbel muur (9") want dit bind die muur as 'n geheel.

" Backfilled" ek neem aan jy praat van die op vul van die spasie tussen die muur en die grond van die "grondvlak"
Wel, omdat dit baie warm daar by julle word in is die sandgrond geneig om uit te droog, dit veroorsaak dan krake in die onderlaag van die grond.
Jy praat van 'n storm., wat dink jy gaan gebeur as die water tussen die krake spoel?
Die krake gaan groter word en die grond gaan wegbreek en wegspoel.
Die drukking van die water ( ongeveer 990kg per 1000lt) gaan te groot vir die enkel muur wees en die dam gaan begin lek.
Onthou die grootste drukking is waar die muur op die fondasie staan.

Ek is nie 'n "engineer" nie, maar het al 'n paar damme gebou!

Ek pos 'n paar fotos hoe ek dit doen, en die dam was op 'n rots formasie gebou!
Ek glo daaraan om dit van die begin af dit reg te doen.

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Let op die draad versterking.
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Die gaping tussen die twee mure was later met (13mm kilp) beton gevul.

My raad aan jou is, spandeer liewer nou meer, en "smile" daarna.

Sterkte.

ps. Ons kan 'n wedenskap aangaan rakende die lekkery as jy wil!!!! lol!
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Apr 25, 2008 10:02 am

Pieter ... ek beskou jou insetsels verseker nie in a negatiewe lig nie ... Wink Ek is al te lank in die tand om fyngevoelig te wees.

Die kans dat water in die krake kan begin spoel is baie swak ... voordat ek die betonwerk en steenwerk begin doen het die "rou" damme vir dae met water in gestaan na reenbuie ... glo my ... dis asof ek die damme uitgekerf het. Die grond is solid, dig en sanderig.

Die bodem las waar die mure op die vloer staan is goed versterk met draad, sterk sement mengsel en a skuins geplaasde baksteen ... ek sal later meer fotos opsit.

Dankie vir jou bydrae.

PS ... my Plan B is om te kyk wat doen die damme en as dit teveel kraak sal ek dit met staal draad uitvoer en "gunite".
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun May 18, 2008 10:53 am

We are now seriously into the finishing stages. Here are some shots of Pond #3 ... this will be mainly a vegetation filter/pond and I am banking on this pond to do the bulk of my water quality control.

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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun May 18, 2008 2:26 pm

Hi Colyn

Progress is looking good. You have a very big property. So are you still under budget?

I was just Imagining how one would go about finding a leak with in your setup.... affraid . It is so big, where would one start? Lets rather believe that there won't be any.

How much cement have you used so far?
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon May 19, 2008 4:30 pm

Im am just over R20,000.00 now ... I will ask my accountant to calculate the bags of cement.

The No 3 pond was given the first coat of Co[rox today and looks good.

If the leaks are not ridiculous I will accept that as part of the water replacement plan.

I am confident to get home and dry under R35,000.00 for the ponds excluding fish and plants.
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Pieter J de Villiers

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon May 19, 2008 4:39 pm

Hell Colyn!

Wat rook julle ouens daar in die Laeveld?
Ek soek ook daarvan...............lyk my dit is goed vir 'n man se begroting lol!
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon May 19, 2008 5:02 pm

Colyn wrote:
Im am just over R20,000.00 now ...

The progress really looks good but i still can't believe the cost...
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon May 19, 2008 6:15 pm

Well Wayne I am even more confident after talking to my son ... he manages most of the buying for me. However he reckons that R35,000.0o is tight. The Coprox and stuff that is mixed into the plaster is quite expensive. He feels R40,000.00 is more realistic. If I accept his forecast then I have 180,000 liters of ponds for R40,000.00 which includes the plumbing and two pumps.

Still a far cry from what I was quoted. Wink

I have asked him now to do a proper cost analysis and will share that once the ponds are full of water. I think that most people are getting drawn into the really expensive stuff more by group pressure than by facts.

Maybe I am a crazy old coot because I am willing to do this experiment and if it fails it will cost me a few bucks in school fees Wink ... however if it works then many more people will be able to afford the pleasure of a pond.
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon May 19, 2008 6:28 pm

Pieter J de Villiers wrote:
Hell Colyn!

Wat rook julle ouens daar in die Laeveld?
Ek soek ook daarvan...............lyk my dit is goed vir 'n man se begroting lol!

Jong ons rook aan die "Waagmoed en Commonsense" bossies Smile

Ek was jare lank in die boubedryf en het hoofsaaklik aan die meer "expensive" goeters gewerk. By een van die projekte het die hoof kontrakteur een oggend by my aangekom en hewig gevloek omdat die swembad bouer se kwotasie die oggend afgelewer is. SY woorde was iets in die volgende lyn ...

"Does this d%$# think I am crazy ... I have some of the best bricklayers and the best plastering crews in the country and he expects me to pay this hell of a price for ROOM full of water with a pump !"

Gedurende die volgend 5 dae het ek gestaan en gekyk hoe die man a swembad gebou het vir een kwart van die gewoteerde bedrag. Dit was a moeilike poel want die hele ding was bo-op die grond en ek het die dekwerk om die poel gedoen. So hy moes ekstra versterking in die mure insit om die mure te beskerm teen die geduik en gespring.

Vyf jaar later het die dek gaan re-furbish en die poel was steeds fine maar die bure se poel wat deur die swembad ou gebou is het verskeie krake in gehad en was leeg toe ek daar was.

Daardie insident het my heeltyd bygebly toe ek met die damme begin het. Terloops ... ek het daarna nog vier lodges se dekke gedoen waar hy die poelle sommer self gebou het en die wat onder die grond gebou was het soos myne gewerk. Enigste verskil is dat hy die meshing oor die stene ook gedoen het en in die pleisterwerk ingebou ... hoofsaaklik om die poel meer skokbestand te maak.

Ja ek stem saam ... my goed lyk onkonvensioneel maar ek het die goed gesien werk in die bos en dit is goed genoeg vir my.
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Jun 09, 2008 11:53 am

As expected I have a flow volume problem Sad ... pond #3 is now on day 9 since filling and I have zero water loss ... at least that is something to be happy about.

Pond #2's plastering is done but the weather is crap for the coprox.
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 12, 2008 12:15 am

Here are a few more shots. Dam #3 has been full of water for 9 days now and I do not see any leaking. There is a problem with flow volume and that will be sorted out.

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Nelius



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PostSubject: Materials   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 12, 2008 9:39 am

How many cement and bricks went into the pond construction?
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 12, 2008 10:03 am

I will post the analysis at the end of the project.
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rob



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 12, 2008 2:21 pm

Collyn, let me know when you are selling the lawnmover. You won't be needing it by the looks of things.. bounce
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 13, 2008 5:15 pm

rob wrote:
Collyn, let me know when you are selling the lawnmover. You won't be needing it by the looks of things.. bounce

Looks like it ... doesn't it Smile

Ok we started filling pond #2 with water ... let's see how this one goes.
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jun 15, 2008 6:26 pm

Today is very special day on the farm ... Pond #2 is almost full. Here is a small time line ...

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The original view from my office. On this day I had the "vision."


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Construction was delayed because untimely rains in April 2007 made the Lowveld think it was Spring
and some Kingfisher started making nests in the wall of Pond #2. We only proceeded again in
December 2007 after the second clutch of chicks left the nest.


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One day before my birthday and I am a happy man. This shot is the image I had in my mind way back
in 2007 when I decided to do the Koi ponds.
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Jun 16, 2008 9:16 pm

What a day ... I was standing at the window looking at the ponds and thinking about the landscaping that needs to be done when this happened. A Bee Eater swooped down and settled in a nearby tree. The next moment it glided to the pond, closed it's wings and fell into the water. For a few moments I was stunned and then I grabbed my camera.

Everything was against me ... the sun is high and behind the pond, the bird is damn fast, I am not in a comfortable position and I had no idea what the light metering setting was on the camera ... but when it did it again I fired.

Technically not the best of shots but if this was and indication of what was in store then the effort I put into the ponds will be all worth while.

I am sharing these with you just for the significance of the moment and not for the image quality.

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Thank you all for your patience over the past months as I posted more about ponds than birds here Wink ... but now the good times seems to be rolling in. In my wildest dreams did I not imagine this bird to be the first to be shot at the ponds.
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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2008 8:36 am

Hi Colyn

I think we all enjoy following the progress of your ponds and thank you for sharing it. There are already more than 300 views on your thread.

The quality of your photos are excellent and the posts on Rhenosterkop Koiponds are off great value to the forum.

You will probably walk away with the price on the best contribution. See "introduction/competitions" on this forum.

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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2008 9:33 am

Thanks Paul ... I am really excited by the project and my expectations are wider than merely having a good habitat for the Koi.

The Bee Eater injected a new determination into the project for me Smile
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Colyn

Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2008 9:09 pm

Pond #2 has been standing now since Saturday and the water level has dropped around 5mm. I am confident it is evaporation and not a leak. So I think I will relax now.
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Colyn

Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 19, 2008 8:04 pm

Today is another special day ... we started circulating the water to include Pond #2. The water flow is not too bad but I am looking at getting more. I think on hot days this will be a bit on the slow side.

As I expected, the moment we started pumping the water in Pond #2 started to foam as it ran down the cascades towards Pond #3. As time went on the foaming increased in the sump. This should clear up in a day or so if the experiene with Pond #3 is anything to go on.

Another good thing for me was that today I noticed that some green algea is forming on the walls of Pond #3. I also noticed some mosquito larvae in Pond #3 and some other insects. My youngest son promptly added two small goldfish to the pond ... let's see if they survive the night. Well must say ... within 30 minutes after they were slipped into the pond we spotted them chasing down and eating some of the insects.

Here is a collection of shots taken today ...

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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 20, 2008 10:16 am

It is looking damn good, must say, I am jealous Very Happy

I would do a good water change before adding fish. You always have some toxins in a new pond(created by the sealer), and the initial effect of new cement on the PH is often quite high. With some paint sealers, you actually have to flush the whole pond once.

Did you test your PH?

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Koi are not my whole life but make my life whole
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 20, 2008 11:31 am

Not really a koi related question...but what camera are you using as the images are very clear and crisp. Are you adjusting it with software or is this as it was taken?
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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 2 Icon_minitime

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