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 Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision

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Jaco

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 04, 2008 11:46 am

Veral omdat al jou damme verbind is kan probleme deur almal versprei.
Jy sal beslis na 'n aparte kwarentyn dam moet kyk volgende.
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 04, 2008 11:59 am

Ja jy is reg ... ek is besig om te kyk hoe ek so dam kan inbring. Probleem is die dam moet totaal afgesonder wees en dit gaan beteken a hele installasie of is ek verkeerd ?
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Jaco

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 04, 2008 12:02 pm

Heeltemaal reg, 6000 - 10 000L werk goed.
Nie eens naby jou huidige damme nie.
Eie filtrasie pompe en nette.
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 04, 2008 12:15 pm

Is daar erens a plan vir so iets ... straight forward niks fancy nie.
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Jaco

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 04, 2008 12:20 pm

Myne is sommer bo-grond gebou enkelry maxiblocks met bottom drain.
Sandfilter en Biobooster werk maklikste.
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bubbles

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 04, 2008 1:28 pm

Jaco kan jy foto's post van die bogrondse kwarentyn dam en hoeveel liter dit is asb.
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Pieter J de Villiers

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 04, 2008 3:17 pm

Hi Colyn,

Hier is myne, gaan loer by: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 04, 2008 3:46 pm

Thanks Pieter.
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verynewtokoi



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PostSubject: Asb Jaco   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 05, 2008 10:56 am

Hello almal, Colyn, jou projek lyk great.

JAco, ek is besig om self te beplan aan n nuwe koi dam by my town house so ek het nie baie spasie sie.

Ek kyk na omtrent die grote van jou kwarentyn dam. Ek wil my stem by Bubbles sin voeg, kan jy asb vir ons fotos & dalk planne van die dam hier op die forum plaas? Asook jou filter "setup" wat jy daarvoor het ??

Baie dankie.
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Jul 06, 2008 2:40 pm

Today is one of those days where I doubt everything I have done Sad

Here is a collection of shots that will explain better why I am in this mood ...

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This shot is the stream that connects the pods. I have 4m between Pond #1 and #2 and 12m between #2 and #3


My questions are this ...

1. In what way can this be utilized to assist with the health of the water?
2. Should I place smaller stones or bigger stones?
3. The stream do run the risk of running dry if power should fail.

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This is the first chamber at the end of the pond system.

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This is the second chamber and the new 3rd chamber. The 3rd chamber was added because I need
more volume to store for the "transito" volume needed to get the system in balance.

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Here you can see the start of a skimmer weir for pond #3. This pond is fringed by some trees
that are dropping flowers and leaves into the pond and I realised that I need a better way
to draw off surface debris. The skimmer will pour the water into two chambers and the
final chamber will spill into chamber one posted earlier.

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Another view of the weir/sump/pit setup.

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Current volume is not enough to cope with runoff when pumps shutdown.

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This a view of a major design oversight.


In the last shot you can see what I did to strengthen the side that was above ground. The plan was that this will host plants on the pond edge. However, by pure oversight the edge was not raised and once the pond is full this flowerbox will be filled by overflow as the outlet is on the same level. Sad

Now I have some options with it.

1. Continue with the stonework and cut the flower box off from the pond. This is most probably the easiest and cheapest option.
2. Do the stonework to follow the outer edge and by that incorporate the flowerbox in the pond.

Option 2 will mean that I have to cast a proper base for the flower box and waterproof it. I will also need to pipe some sort of bottom drain into it so that I can draw water off to pond #2 to ensure that the water do not stagnate in the flower box. This box will not get koi in because the overflow is shallow and plants could be safe.

What will you do ?

Comments and ideas are welcome.
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Eugen

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Jul 06, 2008 4:12 pm

i would continue the stone work on the inner wall and still use the flower box with little higher plants and the streams i would say is good for a biofilter with some smaller stones
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 10:17 am

Thanks Eugen ... that is what I have decided on too. No need to complicate my life further at this stage.

This is going to be the major bio-filter element of the system.

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My problem is now with the bio material. Damn the stuff on offer is really expensive and will cost me a small fortune to put into these tanks.

It is 1000 liter capacity tanks and I need to know how much bio-material per tank. I would also like to know about alternatives. I have been told that the following is options ...

1. 25mm pieces of normal electrical conduit tubing.
2. Plastic hair curlers.
3. Plastic bottle caps.
4. 25mm pieces of normal LDPE pipe.
5. Concrete stone.
6. Bundles of shadecloth.

Can anybody please chime in and give advice.

Thanks.
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Pieter J de Villiers

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 10:58 am

Hi Colyn,

As ek so na daardie groot tanks kyk dink ek die beste sal wees om "tuinslang" te gebruik.

Sny die tuinslang op in 25mm stukkies,
Plaas die stukkies in lemoen sakkies,
maak so 5 sakkie aan mekaar vas met 'm nylon tou.

As jy dit in die tanks plaas moet die nylon tou lank genoeg wees om oor die rant van die tenk te kom.
Maak die toue saam aan 'n punt buite die tenk vas.

Wanneer jy die tenk en "media" will skoon maak kan jy die met die nylon tou op trek, spaar baie kopseer en moeite.
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 10:59 am

Hi Colyn

Obviously the size of your tanks is a bit of a concern...because it will dwarf most of the filter medias...so the normal / standard filtration suggestions might not work for you. Another option that i have seen with tanks of those sizes before is to hang brushes on a cable inside the filter.

I believe that one should realy consider which media to use in a pond as it is going to be in you filtration system for a very long time and you are going to have to live with it.

Consider the following when buying filter media.
1. The surface area.
2. How easy to clean.

Have a look at this article which i wrote for KOISA a year or two ago. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I believe in aerated K1 Kaldness because you never have o clean it and it has a huge surface area which means that you need less of it compared to other medias....but it is expensive +- R 700 for 50L. 50L of K1 can process 250g of waste a day. So 150L should do the trick for you i believe.

I have also tried "Plastic hair curlers" in the past but it works out more expensive than the Ultra Zap Bio Balls...

This company [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] emailed me on my website the other - have a look at them. They advertise 100 units = R67.26 incl vat 1000 units = R513.00 incl vat which is not bad.

Have you thought about using Oyster shells? It will help to maintain the water and will also give a large surface area...
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 11:53 am

Dankie Pieter en Wayne ... ek het Bio Balls gekontak.

Probleem is dat Nelspruit nou nie so groot source vir Oesters is nie Wink

Ek sal die bio material in avosakke sit en met toue hanteer ... dit kan seker a issue raak om die goed uit te duik in daai tenks Smile
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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 1:39 pm

Hi Colyn,

With regards the media in your bioconverter tanks.

Try to contact some plastic scrap yards. They often have shavings from machine shops. Light, easy to handle and dirt cheap. You MUST place any of this plastic in very hot water and rinse it off thoroughly several times. It often contains machine oil. Not good for the koi.

A tip from an old soldier - do not place the media in vegetable bags. Over time sediment collects in side these bags AND bacterial biofilms grow on the bags themselves. This results in a reduced flow rate. This reduced flow rate is especially noticeable on the inside of the bags. Water then take the path of least resistance and begins to by-pass the inside of the bags. Further, is vegetable bags are not packed extremely well water will flow in between them. The efficiency of your filter will decrease.

Have you considered making the two tanks you have into trickle filters. You are pumping the water up there anyway so why not pump the water to the top of the tanks, place a light media (plastic) inside and spray the water down from the top. Excellent bio filtration. You must have sufficient outlets at the bottom so that the water does not build up inside the tanks.

A trickle filter will avoid the weight of a tank full of water, be very efficient, and you will not have to worry about the hydraulic load inside. You do not the any cleaning problems.

Regards,
Chris
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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 1:40 pm

Hi Colyn

I also use one of those tanks on two of my ponds, except that my tank's volume is 5000 liters.

Initially I filled it with hair curlers and gravel at the bottom.

The gravel was a big mess as it is so difficult to clean it. I took it our after my first effort to clean it.

The hair curlers worked quite fine, but constantly blocked my pipes despite all attempts to prevent them from going to the outlet.

Then I made huge bags with shade cloth and filled it with the curlers, tied to a rope for cleaning purposes. However, I found that the shade cloth clogged up and prevented proper flow through the shade cloth and curlers inside the bags. I had to clean the shade cloth all the time to get flow through the bag.

A year ago I took the shade cloth out and filled 2 meter plastic vegetable bags which you buy at Macro on a roll( R 30 meters for 30 meters) with curlers and gravel. The gravel provides extra surface area and prevent the bags from drifting at the top. The curlers are quite cheap around here ( R 10 per shopping bag) I tied all the veg bags to one rope, and can pull all of them out with one rope when it needs cleaning.

I found this to be a very cheap and effective way in view of the huge filter(5000 liters) that I had to fill.

On my inlet inside of the tank, I installed a 45% bend to create a vortex effect with the water circling and swirling around to force the debris to the bottom. This made a huge positive difference.

I believe one of the most important aspects of bio media apart from surface area is to be able to clean it hassle free. The junk that are being caught up by the media is normally the source for bad bacteria and health problems. This is one of the reasons why I would not even bother with gravel and small stones in your channels that link your ponds if I were you. It will prevent leaves and other debris from flowing down the channel and into your skimmer whre it can be removed easily. The stones or gravel are going to catch a lot of debris and create unnecessary waste and sludge underneath and an area for bacteria to grow on rotten leaves etc. Yes, it will be mainly good bacteria because there are going to be a lot of oxygen, but eventually sludge provides breeding ground for bad bacteria, and bacteria will have a feast on the leaves that were cought.

Rocks will also create the possibility of a blockage in the channel between the ponds. Such blockage could allow your bottom pond to run dry if the blockage cause the water to overflow the channel.

Rocks and gravel in the channels will also cause water loss. You will be surprised to see how much.

You have enough source for bio media (green tanks)and bio filtration provided by the whole huge system and the channels (without stones and gravel) will also provided a lot of surface area and will soon look nice with algae growing. The nice looking stoned currently in the channels will soon be green and black anyway.

I had stones on my waterfall because it looked nice and I wanted to increase the sound of water and increase oxygen, but I took them all away. The caused water spillage and cough the leaves and created unwanted sludge on the waterfall and the small ones gradually ended up at the bottom anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 1:55 pm

Just a short note on what Chis posted as we have posted our previous posts at exactly the same time. The plastic veggie bags available at Macro on a roll has got very big holes. It is basically a net made from plastic, and I found that it does not limit the flow through the bag as with the conventional veggie bags.

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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 2:02 pm

Thank you Chris and Paul.

I am aware of the sludge build up on the surface of bags whether shade net or produce bags. The latest avo and orange bags we see here are actually very coarse in design.

Question ... a friend of mine has his bio media in orange bags and he pulls them out regularly and just spray the whole bag with a pressure washer and put back into the tank. Is this good or bad.

Question ... The way I understand trickle filters they need to run constantly. If they dry out the bacteria dies. Is this correct ? If is correct that will be an issue because during summer we loose power a lot due to thunder storms.
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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 2:34 pm

Although the beneficial bacteria can cling to the media quite well, I would not pressure spray the media. You can take it out and sparay it with a hose pipe.

If the bacteria goes dry, they will die. So I believe that you do run the risk with a trickle tower should the power fails for an extended period.

With your setup and money invested, and constant power failures in your area, you should definately think about backup power.

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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 2:55 pm

I have generators and we rarely have long outages but a trickle tower that stands dry in 40 deg C summers will dry out quite rapidly I think.

At the moment I want to roundoff the project and get everything working ... in the next phase I will be installing solar pumps to replace all the electrical pumps because I have a relative low head to reach.

The area where the tanks are is in a koppie and from there it is gravity feed down to the ponds. I have enough room there to add a lot more tanks if need be.

My next mission will be to get the bottomdrains to run.

Question ... how big a flow rate would you want through the bottom drain.
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 3:10 pm

Let me explain better ... will a 25mm pipe that runs constantly draw enough water through the bottom drains.

Keep in mind it will be gravity feed. The way I will do it is to put up a tank and position it so that the overflow is at the height of the pond surface level ... the drain will enter the tank at the bottom and at at one third up I will install an outlet that goes back to the sump. At the top overflow I will connect that to the feedback too. This will allow me to let the system run without a pump. The inflow will be controlled by the outflow and the water speed will be of such that I think solids will settle in the bottom.

If you guys see any glaring flaws in this please advise.
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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 3:13 pm

Your filter chambers are covered so I do not think that standing empty for a few hours is a major problem. If there were long power cuts daily then I would re-think the situation.

Another factor to take into account. In the event of a power failure your tanks stand with water in them The bacteria continue to function consuming the ammonia AND removing the oxygen in the surrounding water. In warmer temperatures a mature filter will remove a fair amount of oxygen causing the conditions to begin going anaerobic. Also the organics in the filters (read algae) continue to biodegrade consuming oxygen.

So you take your choice - trickle filter or submerged filter. Both have advantages and disadvantages. In your case my gut feel is a trickle filter would be more efficient and you would be able to get it to work.

I like the bags the Admin was talking about. Large holes. Any shade cloth netting anywhere in the filter is a real pain and is going to block with organics and bacterial growth.

Once your bacteria mature on the media the bacteria grow inside biofilms. This protects the bacteria and will remain moist for quite a time. The bacteria are remarkably resilient. A good example of a biofilm is the plaak on your teeth. You need dynamite to get rid of it.

Better to wash the organics out of the bags and media regularly. Organics that are biodegrading (going rotten) are much worse (and negatively influence water quality) than some excess bacteria being flushed off. So what every you do you have to design the tanks to be able to be drained - completely for cleaning.

Also how the media is set up inside the tanks is important. In both trickle filter and up-flow designs.

Make it easy for yourself.

Regards,
Chris
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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 3:25 pm

25mm on bottom drain ....... 25mm piping anywhere on a system your size should never even be considered. Keep this piping for garden irrigation.

Koi ponds need to have the pond volume moved through the filter system in under 2 hours (as a rough guide).

View the pond as a human body. The piping is equivalent to our arteries and veins. Restricted arteries and veins is a recipe for disaster. Small diameter piping on a koi pond is exactly the same thing.

Don't rush into it - work it out to the conclusion.

Kind regards,
Chris
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Colyn

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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 07, 2008 3:29 pm

Thank you Chris ... that is good information ... so both have issues if the water is not running but the wet filter has the potential to go really bad if it goes off ?

Ok I will rethink this. Advantage is that I am already pumping the water into the top of the tanks.

If you look at the picture of the tanks you can see that the outlet is at the bottom and then up and arched so that the tanks do not run dry when the pumps go off. There is also provision to drain them completely if need be.

The plan is to have the tanks running 24/7.
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Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision - Page 4 Icon_minitime

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