Sumi Ogon:

I have never heard of a "Sumi Ogon". It looks almost like a chagoi and with the black outlines on the scales, it can go through as a Matsuba Ogon?

I have also never heard of a sumi ogon...just magoi's which are pure black sometimes copper looking carp.

From the name i would think that it would be a black koi. As sumi means black and ogon means single colour...if memory serves.

But OK if that is a new variety then let it be - but i won't buy that. I really looks like a chagoi of some sort.

I think it is a Matsuba Ogon. The fish is not black. It only has black outlines on the scales like a Matsuba.

It's a very rare and new variety.

"Sumi Ogon" maybe is not the real name in English, cause i translate it straight from Japanese.

By the way, this koi is going for R 50000-00 in Japan.

sas wrote:

It's a very rare and new variety.

"Sumi Ogon" maybe is not the real name in English, cause i translate it straight from Japanese.

By the way, this koi is going for R 50000-00 in Japan.

Koi names are Japanese....not english. I am no expert on the Japanese lanuage but lets see what i can do...

I used the following site to help with the pronunciation and definitions of Japanese words. http://www.geocities.com/koifla/Pronunci.htm

SUMI : Black or a black pattern
CHA : Brown
OGON : A single-colored metallic Koi.
MATSUBA : A gray or black marking on the middle part of the scales that give the impression of a "pine cone" pattern.

This koi above is propably a Matsuba of some kind. If i had to make a name for it i would call it a Cha-Matsuba but Sumi-Ogon could be right aswell as SUMI apparently can also refer to a black pattern. So...a single coloured koi with a black pattern...but i must say that it is rather confusing as that name (Sumi Ogon) does not state what the underlying colour is. So it could be a white koi with a black pattern aswell...actually it could refer too any matsuba then.

Now coming back to the koi it self.
I would never pay that amount as it is not very appealing and for R 50 000 i could buy a stunning GO-Sanke of very high quality measureing around 50cm+.

I agree with you that "Sumi Ogon" is a bit confusing, but "Cha-Matsuba" sounds better.

You can buy a top quality 2 year old (+-45cm) Go-sanke for R5000-00 in Japan.

So, with R50000-00 i would rather buy 10 top quality Go-sanke rather than one Ogon.

Hi,

I do not class this Koi under "Matsuba-goi."

“ Matsuba is the dorsal pattern of the Asagi." This Koi comes from the Asagi line, being produced early in history. In Matsuba the scales are black.

This to me is a Matsuba Ogon, bred from Matsuba and Ogon. The term Ogon in a combination of both “ Golden” and “Silver”. The first Matsuba Ogon was produced in 1960 by Eizaburo Mano. A brownish golden color Ogon.
Takeo Kuroki mentions in his book Modern Nishikigoi the following Koi: A brownish-gold Matsuba Ogon. Called a Kinporai.

I would call the Koi a Bronze Ogon, just a thought!

Pieter
http://southafricankoi.11.forumer.com

Hi Everyone,

I have a Doitsu one of about 90cm.
I am prepared to take R40000.00

Jaco wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I have a Doitsu one of about 90cm.
I am prepared to take R40000.00

Ha ha, it used to be the Japanese making money from us. But now you can go and sell your koi to the people in Japan for a bargain price of R40000-00 and make some money from those Japanese.

Back to the pictures, you maintained your pond very well, your pond water is very clear.

All you koi are nice and big, how old are them?

Jaco, pragtige vis en nice foto.

Don’t Laugh,

I know that Monster, it’s so bloody big; Jaco may easy score that money from a Fresh Fish Dealer!!!

Pieter
http://southafricankoi.11.forumer.com

Thanks for the nice comments.
My eldest koi is about ten years old now.
I have only been in the hobby for 8 years now.