yeah, sometimes its just ignorance, but other times its laziness.

Hi guys

Unfortunately this is a issue right through the spectrum of wildlife and fisheries management. If you realy want your hair to stand up staight then look at the mismanagement of Elephants. In our own Kruger park there is an overpopulation of some 20.000 plus. The parks capacity is only 3500.
In Botswana the elephant have destroyed its habitat to the extent that they will shortly begin to starve. On most game farms the inbreeding is unbelievable. Yet nothing gets done. Cats, and dogs suffer the same fate.

The problem just does not seem to go away and our bodies keep themselves busy with petty arguments.

It realy is a shame.
Maybe it should be regulated? you should have a permit to own and then someone should evaluate your facility,s. Can we handle it. I am not so sure.

Neville wrote:

Maybe it should be regulated? you should have a permit to own and then someone should evaluate your facility,s.

I have heard those words before....they sound so familair. Who is going to be the koi police? Our gov cant even regulate the important things like motor vehicle licenses, taxi licenses, tv licenses, electricity or illegal immigrants or crime.

If i may use the motor vehicle licenses as an example..how many illegal drivers ard vehicles are on the road?...but yet the guy that pays his moneis and has the licens is the one getting nailed over and over by the regulator authority with fines - not the one driving illegally. The illegal driver just speeds past the traffic camera as they cant trace him. The gov wont be able to do this, so in the end it will have to be a company in the private sector that knows about koi with "regulatory rights" given to it by gov that will have to manage it and chances are good that it will have to be a koi dealer and i doubt if such a koi dealer could realy be run fair without disadvantaging other dealers.

Just for the record: I am deadset against any type of regulation in the koi industry where it will apply to the keeper/hobbyist. Cause we will then just be giving someone an oppertunity to make money of us for doing nothing. I am quiet happy for there to be a central body for dealers to belong to through which import and export gets regulated but leave the private individual out of it.

Are we going to have to write a test now before we are alllowed to keep kois? How many koi keepers do you think will there be then? Koi dealerships would have to close because most people just want some koi in a pond in their garden and they wont be bother going for permit tests. Are the koi police going to come and check if i clean my filters once a week or how i do it? Sorry Neville, this will never work and i am deadset against it. Even if such a body existed and we needed permits they would never come and check your stocking rates, filters or how your pond works. They would take your monies give you your permit and thats where it would end...so what is the point? That is how the Cycads permits work, you apply for it, you pay your monies and what ever you do with your Cycads after getting the permit is your problem...just pay us again please when your permit expires.

If the SPCA cant get that type of authority over doggies and kittens owner which outnumber koi by far then what is the chances of it happening to koi? We have a better chance that the import of koi or carp will be banned by our local country like they have done in Australia because that would be easier and then where will we be then?

Your heart is in the right place but logisticly it would be a nightmare.

The only way our gov will regulate koi in SA is to place a total ban on koi.

If my memory serves me correctly this almost happened in 2007.

Now koi is under scrutiny by the gov until further notice and Koi must go through a Risk and Vector Assessments. Koi will fail both hands down.

No, no Unload your guns, I did not say I want it, what I meant was be carefull, dont complain too much just now they do it like everything else, they will obviously see a gap to take our money for this as well. Maar oor die Olifante is ek de Mo.r in want hulle reguleer dit en dit is n totale f.. op.

I believe we can carry on about this for ever.
A car driver can kill somebody by "accident" and drive away tomorrow. But my friend you shoot someone and see what happens.

Interesting topic.

It made me carefully evaluate why I want a pond. The answer really has more to do with what I don't want.

I am primarily a gardener and creator. I love gardening and I love the constant stimulus to my creativity that it engenders. For me, a swimming pool is an ugly thing. It's a barren, sterile, chemical filled hole that offers no reward to me or my family. In fact, it's a pain in the arse to keep clean.

Converting my pool into a pond is not with the intent to keep koi. Not at all. It's to bring beauty into that corner of my garden, that my wife and I can sit around with a glass of wine and have a slice of peaceful nature.

My aim is to create tranquil interest, and for that I need at the very least, a healthy pond with plants in it and preferably clear water. I am prepared to forgo fish completely in order to have clear water. Together with this aim, my power consumption needs to be minimal. My power budget should ideally be less than 150W. It wouldn't sit well with me to have something natural and beautiful knowing fullwell that it is munching electricity and creating pollution elsewhere.That, to me, misses the point.

What use is keeping healthy, beautiful fish in your back yard (and proclaiming to all who would hear) what a wonderful, nature-loving, tree-hugging animal fancier you are, when you are drawing 50kw a day that comes from dirty coal and destroys nature, just not in your back yard?

Be that as it may, the day might come that I would like to try my hand at keeping fish outside. Just because it would never be my primary aim, does not make me any less suitable as a fish keeper. I don't know my kamikazis from my hara kiris and bukkake showers, and so what? One does not have to be passionate about koi to the point of pedantry in order to love them and care about their wellbeing. (the 50+kw some okes are using per day are more telling of an obsession, and that's their prerogative after all if that's what they want). It's nobody's business.

My needs and wants are different, and I'm mature enough to know what they are and not be bothered by not being 'a true scotsman' as the OP would paint it.

If there is a distinction to be made, it's the same as in any expensive pastime, whether it be scale planes, bikes, boats or bakvissies: willful ignorarance is to be criticised above all other things, and it is definitely not guaranteed that 'passionate koi KEEPERS' are immune to it, is it?