Is the grey fish in the picture an Ochiba or a Saragoi. (Ginrin)

It have only about 4 fairly small brown patterns(autumn leaves). How much is enough to qualify as an "Ochiba"

The brown patterns disappear and re-appear from time to time.

Not a good photo and not a good quality fish, but interesting.

I have spawned with her and a Kohaku by way of an experiment in December 2007, kept only about 200 babies, and there are quite a few nice Ochiba and Saragoi babies developing.

It looks Saragoi to me.

I would also say it would be classified as a poor quality Soragoi.
IMHO

Hi,

A Sora-goi is a grey-blue, non-metallic Koi.
Ochiba-shigure a blue-grey Koi, with brown patterns or spots. Even one brown spot!

The shades of brown regarding Ochiba-shgiure are basic the same as with Cha-goi, ranging from a dark-reddish brown to a Golden Brown.
The “reddish-brown” Ochiba-Shigure normally came from a Soragoi/Kohaku spawning.

See my posting picture 2 dated 12 November 2007 - http://southafricankoi.11.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=378

Pieter
http://southafricankoi.11.forumer.com

Thanks for the input, must say, they are the most placid friendliest koi just like the Chagoi, (and Ochiba) and I will always have a Soragoi, Chagoi or Ochiba in my pond. With munch time, they are always there first, and make the others tame, and they are fast growers.