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 Testing PH

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stumble



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PostSubject: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeThu Mar 25, 2010 1:12 pm

Okay now I am confused.
I am getting 3 different readings on my PH.
With the freshwater test kits for aquariums I get 6.5. When they say freshwater does salt affect the reading. I currently have .1 % salt.

Then I used the pool ph test kit and I get 8.2.

My hannah meter says its 5.9.
its a new meter and maybe a bit out. I have ordered the solutions and am waiting for it. Aren't they factory calibrated anyway?
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeThu Mar 25, 2010 1:35 pm

Hi Stumble, salt will impact the TDS of the water and also the Total Alkalinity so i guess its possible for it to affect PH. I would expect the PH to be higher and not lower but im no water chemistry expert...

Go and buy some distilled bottled water. That should give you a PH of 7...then compare the meters. The one coming closest to 7 is the one ill trust. Distilled water always has a PH of 7 but if it comes in contact with atmosphere it can drop to PH 5.

What is the pH of distilled water?
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeThu Mar 25, 2010 4:02 pm

Just for fun and not related to PH. Place distilled water in an ice tray and freez it and chekout what happens... Make sure the ince tray is dry and clean before adding the distilled water.
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bobby

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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeThu Mar 25, 2010 5:12 pm

stumble wrote:
Okay now I am confused.
I am getting 3 different readings on my PH.
With the freshwater test kits for aquariums I get 6.5. When they say freshwater does salt affect the reading. I currently have .1 % salt.

Then I used the pool ph test kit and I get 8.2.

My hannah meter says its 5.9.
its a new meter and maybe a bit out. I have ordered the solutions and am waiting for it. Aren't they factory calibrated anyway?

Hi Stumble
I have had a few issues with calibration, over time solution expire and give false readings.
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stumble



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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeFri Mar 26, 2010 9:12 am

I'm getting a better reading with my hannah now. Seems I wasnt leaving it in the glass of water long enough.
my water is around 6.5 -6.8 in my quarantine pond. Need to raise it a bit.
I give up with the pool tester. Maybe its old.
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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeFri Mar 26, 2010 12:24 pm

wayneb wrote:
salt will impact the TDS of the water and also the Total Alkalinity so i guess its possible for it to affect PH. I would expect the PH to be higher and not lower

In my experience, salt does not directly effect the PH. You do get acidic salts, but the common pool salt that we use, has a ph of 7.

Indirectly it can affect the PH, but over time. Salt influence for instance the presence of algae, and the amount of algae in a pond affects the PH. With an algae bloom for instance, you get big swings in PH due to the effect of for instance Carbon dioxide ( CO2 ) in the pond.

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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeFri Mar 26, 2010 1:24 pm

Gettig a bit sidetracked from the orginal question here..sorry

As i said im no water chemistry expert so i turned to the great Oracle Google to help me with my questions. geek

Got this from wiki.

Quote :
What is the pH level of common salt?

ph is the negative log of the hydrogen ion concentration. As Salt contains no hydrogen the question is meaningless. You have to add some water before it becomes relevent.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_pH_value_of_salt_water

Quote :
However, as it neither has nor produces any hydrogen ions, it's neither acidic nor alkaline. It's a base.

Quote :
Does Salt Change the pH of Water?

It depends upon the pH of the water into which the salt is being introduced. Chemically speaking, salt is a base compound, falling smack in the center of the acid-alkaline spectrum. If introduced to water which has a high pH, the pH might be lowered incrementally toward the center of the pH spectrum depending on how much water there was and how much salt was introduced. If the water had a very low pH, making it very acidic, the salt would increase the pH toward the center of the spectrum
http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4577912_does-salt-change-ph-water.html
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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeSat Mar 27, 2010 6:40 am

Hi,

Read what Paul has to say carefully - he is correct. Its amazing the difference in pH between a morning reading and a later afternoon reading in a pea green pond. (that story of me, somewhere else on this forum, killing the 400 babies was a direct result of trying to control the pH in a pea green holding pond using acid)

Ponds are dynamic water bodies - the water quality parameters vary during a day / night cycle as well as a seasonal cycle.

pH will vary during the course of a day. So take a reading first thing in the morning then in the late afternoon to get some idea what is going on. If the variation is not too great - LEAVE THE pH ALONE. pH is the one water parameter that has a dramatic effect on your koi - start fiddling and you will have to do daily checks and adjust daily. Every time the pH goes up or down a point or two and it has a profound effect on the koi. A very stressful situation.

pH not only affect the koi but the nitrifying bacteria in the filters need a pH range of about 7.5 - 8.5 to function well. Below pH 7 these bacteria are hardly functioning.

I would rather throw the pH test kits away - honestly - if you don't know about it you won't worry about it. Test for ammonia. If this is continually low then everything is OK and the filter is coping. You could also test for nitrite as this is a silent killer. Don't worry about nitrates. Same as pH throw this test kit away. Firstly koi can withstand quite high nitrate levels and we rarely get very high nitrate levels in koi ponds because of our filtration systems.

Chris
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stumble



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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeSun Mar 28, 2010 8:55 am

I needed to know the PH to move the fish from the quarantine to main pond.
It would have been crazy to throw koi from 6.5 straight to 8.2 Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeSun Mar 28, 2010 9:17 am

I agree Shocked
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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeSun Mar 28, 2010 10:02 pm

Yes you are correct.

Then you make the move as though you had brought fish home in a bag and you adjust the parameters very slowly.

Why is there such a difference in pH between the ponds?

Chris
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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeMon Mar 29, 2010 10:16 am

Agree with the statement of dumping the PH test kit. Trying to change the PH will do more damage then good.........
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stumble



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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeTue Mar 30, 2010 1:11 pm

Chris Neaves wrote:
Yes you are correct.

Then you make the move as though you had brought fish home in a bag and you adjust the parameters very slowly.

Why is there such a difference in pH between the ponds?

Chris

I don't know. I did water changes in the QT and slowly brought the PH up to 7.5.

Now today I see the main pond is still 8.2 but the QT has reverted to 6.5.
Its a worry when you have to move the fish. pale
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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeTue Mar 30, 2010 1:34 pm

Hi Stumble

It is quite normal to have a 8.2 PH in a newly build concrete pond initially. It will gradually go down as the pond mature.

I would put some cement bricks/blocks or diy fresh concrete pieces in the QT pond or it's filtration to get the ph of the two closer to each other. Replace them from time to time with new ones. It is a safe, more grudual and more permanent option to raise the PH in your QT facility. Baking soda will only have a temporary effect and jump back which is not good for the fish and you are running the risk of a PH crash.

As your main pond matures and gets in line with the PH of the QT facility, you can take the cement bricks out of the QT pond again.

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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeTue Mar 30, 2010 7:08 pm

Hi Stumble

If your pond is at 8.2 and your QT is at 6.5 and the koi in the QT must go to the main pond then do a 10 - 20% WATER CHANGE per day in the QT but fill it up from the main pond that way you will belance the QT out to the same as the main pond. The 2 ponds should be the same after 5 - 10 days all depends on the % of water that you change per day.

During this period you will also see if there will be any problems between the koi of the main pond and that of the QT pond.
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stumble



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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeWed Mar 31, 2010 9:54 am

Thanks Paul.
Yes I did put a cement brick in the filter.
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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeWed Mar 31, 2010 12:20 pm

Hi Stumble

You will have to do better than one. Some old bricks that were exposed to the elements/washed out by rain will also have no real influence.

If you do this in combination with Collin's suggestion, you should be fine.

Collin mentioned something that few people adhere to, but should IMO always be part of QT procedures.

When I quarantine my fish, I always use water from the main pond and do my water changes from there. This is to enable the new arrivals to get used to the water parameters of the main pond already from the start during the QT period.

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stumble



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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeWed Mar 31, 2010 12:29 pm

I already did that, when I brought up the PH in the QT. I used water from the main pond. I figured tap water wouldnt make a difference. I didnt use bicarb. I dont like that.
I did this over a period of days until the reading was 7.5.
In a day or two it was back to 6.5.

The swinging ph is not good. So for now I will see if the brick will make a difference. I will try and get a new one and add that too.

I will do water changes from main pond again when i need to transfer.
Not sure why it keeps dropping. Filters are clean. Fish are happy.
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PostSubject: Re: Testing PH   Testing PH Icon_minitimeWed Mar 31, 2010 2:02 pm

Hi Stumble

Tel us what is your Alkalinity IE kh hardness
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