I cannot leave you guys alone for too long, I was entertaining a Koi friend and I find myself in a war zone upon my return.
SA have serious keepers giving some serious feedback re important Koi matters. The posts and phone calls convinced me not to go ahead with the 500g op PP and I decided to re-check PH and wait for filters to be coupled on Tuesday before any further action will be taken.

I have seldom or ever found two opinions on contentious issues to be the same on all the forums around the world. Like with all schools of thought one tends to come across different systems with different needs. For the lack of a better description one will always have an old and new school of thought like with all aspects of live.

I think it is healthy to listen to all views, evaluate them and then decide the way forward based on your personal needs.

Therefore my thanks and appreciation for all the opinions aired today in the best interest of Koi.

LG,

I will drink to that!

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But, the question I ask myself is, is there any bio film present in Bobby pond at this point of time?

If you want the biofilm to colonise quicker then you must PP the pond!

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If the PP does boost the growth of organic live, is it really necessary to risk the pond “structure”by doing so?

Please show me or refer me to any pond who's structure was damaged or risked through a routine low level dosage of PP.

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One thing is for sure, I will never go to war with you by my side.............hell, you will miss the enemy target by miles! Even worse you could see the enemy as friendly’s!

I fail to understand where you are going with this......

If you want your pond to mature at a faster rate then PP will do it for you! This is proven!

This has nothing to do with letting nature takes it course..... there is nothing natural about a koi pond.... nothing at all! What you are are truying to do is to assist biofilms to form quicker regardless of the very unnatural environment that was created in the first place.

If you had a choice of sitting with an ammonium peak of 0,4mg or 1,5mg - which would you rather have? If you had a choice of reducing the time period on a nitrite spike what would you rather do?

I have seen ponds start up without PP and regardless of the filtration used they do take longer to mature!

I personally have 14 ponds and 5 mud ponds..... and some of these I have had to rebuild over the years due to filter changes.... those that I started up with PP matured far quicker than those I did not......those that I pp'd did not form oil slicks on the water, and the media colonised at a much quicker rate. You need a clean surface as well as a carrier - without the macro molecules you cannot bind the bio film to the media or any surface area...

I get the impression that you are taking this personally..... as you seem to persist in making derogatory remarks...

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You may not be one for all this testing, but at least test the pH!

I still fail to understand what any of these comments have anything to do with removing the oily films and coatings which are on every surface of pipework, filters and filter media and cleaning up whatever organics are in the pond, and therefore encouraging a faster start up on the pond....

I would challenge anyone on this forum to start up 2 identical ponds and to PP one and leave the other.... you will very quickly see the difference.

And remember we are not talking about Bobby's initial "lets just go with 500g of PP" - that was never my advice - we are talking about the most basic low level PP dosage... if any pond can not handle a low level PP dosage then I would seriously suggest that that person gives up koi keeping... it is a pity that Roddy Conrad is not part of this forum...

You must have missed the part about....

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So, after the big test with PP treatment to get a clean surface and a stable bio carrier material, we could now generate the macro molecular film (primer), needed as a sticky base for the bacteria.

....... we looked at the chemical reaction after a PP treatment and we found the end residues are actually a nutrient for the bacteria and are the same as we have found in the REM/RMA. This was the reason the filter had a boost after a PP treatment.

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I think this is what new pond owners should know!

Bobby is by far not a new pond owner.....

The school of thought that only nitrobacter and nitrosomanas are to play in filtration is incorrect!

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If the nitrite is to high ad salt ( 3kg/1000lt) to reduce the nitrite spike.

This is also incorrect....

Salt does not reduce a nitrite spike - it reduces the toxic effect of the nitrite on the koi.....

The research I refered you to took 3 years to establish the findings....

So, use it.... or do not use it.....
The choice is yours at the end of the day..... but at least you have read the research.

What ever!

Please don't blow-up!

There a saying in Afrikaans:
"Moet nie al om jou gat redeneer nie"

Happy PP.........................

Aghmmm... Bobby any new photos?

Are you going to have specific lighting for the pond? What does it look like at night?

I personally prefer to enjoin Bobby’s pond than a hypothetical argument.
Wys nog Bobby!

Sorry Wayne I am back at work, have to pay for this new toy.

Wayne view from Balcony

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Bobby,ek wou ook dieselfde3 vraag as Wayne vra. Hoe gaan die dam verlig word in die aand na julle 'n pragtige sonsondergang gehad het. Dankie vir die info oor water pre-filter ens.

Enige spesiale manier om visse gevang te kry?? Vir my is dit altyd 'n pyn om een gevang te kry sonder om al die ander die skrik op die lyk te jaag.

Oom Bobby I must tell you your brick layer did one hell of job with that face brick really neat.

Hi Maruis daar is betaande "Day Night" ligte wat tans bietjie helder is, die plan is om later dit aan te pak as ek nou eers aan die spasie gewoond geraak het.

Jy vra vir my oor Koi vang ? as ek nie die paal dubbel vou in my huidige dam nie dan steek ek alles stukkend om my.

Die kenners se die volgende. Twee mense, een persoon met 3m stok wat slegs Koi stadig nader bring vanaf 'n afstand sonder om te probeer vang, terwyl die ander persoon met 2m stok of socknet die Koi skep en uithaal.

Ek sien die Yanks maak gebruik van iets soos 'n treknet om die een helfte van dam afteskort en sodoende die vang area verklein.

Ek het nooit geglo ek sou so 'n probleem moet aanspreek nie, skielik voel ek nou of ek ook 'n Koi dam het en nie soos die "upstairs: Wayne my dam altyd 'n "settlement chamber" genoem het nie.

Thanks to Julie and Pieter for a most interesting "debate" on the use of Potassium to start off a new pond.

My immediate thoughts were, why PP. To sterilise, I might use Virkon and definitely salt.

However, the research given by Julie provided a lot of food for thought although I am not convinced yet, and will do some research and experiment myself.

It once again brings us back to the saying, " in this hobby you will find many roads will get you to Rome"

To Bobby, I would like to say once again, congratulations and thanks for creating the most valuable thread on this forum.

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Most users ever online this morning, 63 at the same time. Must be Bobby's pond.

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Morning Paul.
I had a look at this earlier, this could only mean our economy is on the up and the bosses are relaxed. Koi must be this Monday morning:
As if i can talk!

I am trying to work on my PC but keep on looking outside at the pond for leaks in disbelieve.

Bobby, waar kom die nuwe braai? Ons wil darem die nuwe dam kan bekyk terwyl ons daar by jou braai.

Wayne as jy in die bestaande braaikamer vertoef en opstaan kan jy deur die voordeur glas panele op die water kyk, alternatief sal ek maar die gasbraaier op die balcony moet afbring. Ek het mos nou Koi Den vir voor en een vir agter.
Die studeer kamer storie is net om belangrik te klink

Ek is nou opppad om eers nog 'n 32mm valve te koop, in al die bokse vol fitting is daar nou nie hierdie spesifieke een oor nie. Ek wil die pre-filter afhaal en kyk hoe lyk die binnegoed, aangesien daar nou amper 32 000lt munisipale cain daar deur is.

Ja klink na 'n bakgat idea. Ons kan tog nie nou meer by die ou settlement chamber kuier nie.

LG,

Wat van kameras op die dam, met groot "flat screen" in the braaikamer?
Dan kan almal dronk word, Koi kyk en verseker wees hulle val nie in die dam nie!

Cool Pieter, sal maar saam met filter dakkie en glasdeur moet oorstaan tot 2010. Ek sal eers iets in dam moet sit wat 'n man op TV wil sien. (Beslis nie 'n kaal sorry nie)
Ek glo as ek 'n kollekte bortjie by deur sit sal ek gou daai monster Yen bedryf kan aanskaf.

Volg net die Cape Koi voorbeeld en laat die mense betaal om jou koi vir jou tevoer.

Marius....Hier in Pretoria is baie papgooiers...'n klein van der Merwe hoekie met 'n degie op....'n bietjie Tutti Frutti dip. Nooi ons as jy jou vis wil vang Bobby!

Hell,

As ons so aangaan haal hierdie topic 10 000 posts voor Xmas!

Laat waai, miskien sponsor die admin vir my so 'n 2mil Yen Koi daar by Koi Online.

Nee Bobby, het jy nie die nuwe voorwaardes van die forum gelees nie? Die skepper van 'n onderwerp betaal per click. Na dese sal jy moet hoes. Die balju gaan binnekort daar by jou opdaag om beslag te le op daai Nexus, wou nog altyd een gehad het


Sal vir jou 'n sandfilter in sy plek los. (SF sal so bly wees)

Haai!,

Dis SF vir jou