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DAVID

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PostSubject: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2009 8:55 am

WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Kitchenandpond023
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2009 9:22 am

Looks like a Hageshiro but the photo is not very clear.

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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2009 9:50 am

David,

This Koi could be one of the following;

Hageshiro:
A Koi with not only white tips to its caudal and pectoral fins, but also a white head and nose.

Yotsushiro:
This relatively rare Koi has a white head and white pectoral and caudal fins.

Sumi-nagashi:
This is a very subtle Koi whose black scales are outlined in white, creating an effect very similarly to an Asagi pattern. Heard and pectoral fins white. Also, known as Asagi Sumi-nagashi

This Koi falls under the Kawarimono group.

As Paul said, it is difficult to judge it from the photo.
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2009 10:40 am

THANK'S FOR THE INFO.
I WILL TAKE MORE PIC'S THIS WEEKEND AND I HAVE ANOTHER ONE BUT THE WHITE IS MORE CREAM / YELLOW.
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeMon Aug 31, 2009 8:11 am

WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Newpond043




WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Newpond045
Can you tell me from the pic's if good or bad. the belly's have a bit of orange thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeMon Aug 31, 2009 8:57 am

In view of the fact that it has an orange belly, it might be a Beni Matsukawabaki, but may still be a (mix) Hageshiro in view of the white(or cream) head and pectoral fins.

Matsukawabaki is the scaled version of the Kumonryu.

Artice by Kevin Harrison (SA KOI JUDGE) see koisa.co.za

Kumonryu

This is a koi that never ceases to amaze, as it is able to transform totally from one year to the next.
History
Kumonryu literally means “dragon”, because of the wonderful patterns it can develop which resemble a
dragon. To me it resembles a Friesland cow with the prominent black and white curved, arched and
warped patterns.
There are three variations of the Kumonryu:
1. Kumonryu black and white.
2. Beni Kumonryu orange/red, black and white (or combinations of two or three colours to a lesser or
greater degree). It must have the orange/red colouration to be called a Beni Kumonryu.
3. Kumonryu (scaled version) Matsukawabaki

This article focuses on the doitsu varieties, which are extremely attractive. Not many koi keepers have
the scaled version because it tends not to be as attractive as the doitsu equivalent. The name given to
the scaled version is a Matsukawabake.
Pattern and Colour Transformation
It is able to change colour and pattern almost overnight. It can gain colour and pattern and even lose
colour and pattern within a few weeks. I have found that this has nothing to do with water temperature.
Although, the sumi does tend to become more prominent in cooler water. It is the sumi or black that is
so unstable. The base colour of white (shiroji) or orange (orenji) seems to be a lot more stable in my
experience.
I have seen koi-keepers who enter a Kumonryu at a show one year and it takes top honours in its
variety, only to find the following year that it has lost most of its sumi and resembles a shiro muji (a pure
white koi). I am always reluctant to sell a kumonryu as you may have regrets the following year when
you see it in someone else's pond.

Does the colour change from time to time?

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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeMon Aug 31, 2009 10:48 am

Yes they do change colour the orange comes and goes. The white behind the head it also changes.
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeFri Sep 04, 2009 12:59 pm

i am going to go with beni Matsukawabake.
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2009 9:26 am

A BETTER PHOTO TO SEE THE COLOUR.

WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Newpond
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2009 11:18 am

Form all the pics it almost looks like not so good quality Asagi that went too dark Question
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2009 3:52 pm

That koi comes from an Ochiba spawn, it happens that some go black. I have heard of very nice Kumonryu comming from a Doitsu Ochiba spawn
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeTue Sep 08, 2009 8:31 pm

yes, yes.

I have one swimming in my pond (kumonryo). you wont be able to make it to the baby show jaco? i will have it there.

i will try upload a pic
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeTue Sep 08, 2009 8:52 pm

Ok, got it sorted.

First, here's a pic of the Matsukawabake i had, i gave it away earlier this year. i have another pic of it where it is almost snow white.
WHAT VARIETY IS THIS SDC11419

and here are three of the Kumonryuo i mentioned.
WHAT VARIETY IS THIS SDC11532
WHAT VARIETY IS THIS SDC11535
WHAT VARIETY IS THIS SDC11536
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeTue Dec 08, 2009 7:58 am

I think there are many varieties and colors too...
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2010 5:49 am

Hi all
4 months later and all the orange has gone.
a lot of white coming

WHAT VARIETY IS THIS IMGP1353
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2010 6:28 am

Matsukawabaki
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2010 6:43 am

Hi Jaco

Matsukawabaki ???
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2010 6:55 am

Koi have a tendency to change color due to the effects of their environment or due to their diet. These color changes typically entail the fish going from a duller or brighter shade of color. The Matsukawabake Koi species takes the ability to change color. It is a black Koi that typically has areas or white on its body. According to the temperature of the water or the seasons the color of this Koi fish can change completely. This Koi can turn completely black or completely white. But, amazingly the Koi will return to its original pattern once the conditions change.
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PostSubject: Interesting   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2010 7:39 am

Gents I have just spawned kumonryu with matsukawabake in Dec and got very interesting results with a lot of chagoi and Ochiba in the mix.
After lots of investigating I have accepted the most likely scenario which is that japanese breeders often cross the larger strains chagoi etc into the bloodline to gain growth, size and bodyshape. The brown tinge on the flank of the koi makes me think matsukawabake with a little tinge of ochiba

WHAT VARIETY IS THIS 07012010237
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2010 7:44 am

Thanks Jaco
I have two of these koi. The one changing colour is female and the other
is male with no changes so far. Would you say female koi change colour
more than male's ??
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Pieter J de Villiers

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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2010 8:04 am

HI,
Talking about changing color.
This is my GinRin Matsukawabaki

WHAT VARIETY IS THIS GinRinMatsukawabakeFm70cm
Photo taken after Winter. (August)

WHAT VARIETY IS THIS GinRinMatsukawabakeFm76cmBW
Photo taken before Winter (End April)
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2010 1:59 pm

Hi pieter
Which do you prefer AUGUST or APRIL ?
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Pieter J de Villiers

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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2010 2:04 pm

David,

The color of the period in between.....................December.
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2010 3:35 pm

Hi pieter
I like APRIL Smile
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PostSubject: Re: WHAT VARIETY IS THIS   WHAT VARIETY IS THIS Icon_minitimeSat Jan 23, 2010 4:48 pm

DAVID wrote:
Yes they do change colour the orange comes and goes. The white behind the head it also changes.

Are you pretty much sure about this.. Will it change colors for sure.. Nice to here this..
Thanks for the information.. may I know is any special reason for this .. or what..??

Looks like a wonder almost...!!

Gilly..

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