I am new to the Koi hobby and is currently planning a 25000lt pond with outside measurements of 5.2 x 2.4 x.2.2 due to space constraints.
I own a few above average Koi with growth potential and would like to create a good environment for future growth. Part of my planning is a Nexus 300, Easy Pod, Trickle Towers, and Air Dome Bottom Drains.

I am getting mixed signals from my fellow Koi Keepers re the question about pond returns, top, mid and bottom for the purposes of Koi exercise by means of a timer.
Some view that the piping will contain anaerobic pathogenic bacteria over a period of time, due to the system not running fulltime. Some suggest that with the help of valves the system is changed from a pump flow to a suction system via an alternate line when Koi are rested. My question is if this is still practiced by Koi keepers today or is this method not important to achieve good body shape? Is the pond to small to create too much current? Does the air dome play a role in achieving current and body shape?

Hi Bobby

Here is my 2c worth.

Q 1) My question is if this is still practiced by Koi keepers today or is this method not important to achieve good body shape?

A 1) Yes this method is still being practiced today from Japan and the rest of the world. It contributes a lot to body shape.

Q 2) Is the pond to small to create too much current?

A 2) Nothing is too small or too big to create too much current. Just remember that too much current can make a Kohaku lose it red.

Q 3) Does the air dome play a role in achieving current and body shape?

A 3) Yes it does, with out air stones or air domes you will only have horizontal currents but with them you will have horizontal and vertical currents.

You should not stop the flow from the returns from the pump at different levels in the pond at all just turn them down to a very slow flow that will prevent any build up of nasties. The only timer should be you.

Thanks Collin, for feedback, I will put it to good use

Bobby as jy goeie body shapes wil he kan jy maar altyd jou babatjies hier by my kom los.....weet net nie of ek hulle gaan terug wil gee nie

Helloooooooooo!,

Regarding the lost of the Hi on a Kuhaku...........What can happen with too much current is that it actually rubs the hi off the plate of the koi. Think of the constant action of the sea against cliffs.

And as for the nasties... with too much current they get to catch-up with the koi a lot faster and latch on. Sort of like launching torpedoes.



Now seriously... Koi don't really like fast flows and a more even flow is preferrable. But losing hi and encouraging nasties...

A few factors which may contribute together:

1/ The genetic quality of the koi. Low quality koi have unstable hi plates that are tempramental.
2/ Change in water environments (hardness, pH, temp) trigger the above reaction.
3/ Stress. The hi plate cells (I forget their names) react to stress and can recede.

Moet nie alles glo wat Collin vertel nie.....................julle mag net met 'n langbeen op eindig!

Hi Pieter Dankie.

Gee asb jou mening oor volgende "proposed Pond stats"

Size 2.3 x 4.7 x 2.5 Binne mate minus slopes = 26000lt

x2 Bottom Drains een met Air (Wat is jou mening oor die drukking van lug pomp vir 2.5m?)

Nexus 300 plus Easy Pod moontlik 2 (indien spasie dit toelaat?), skimmer en 2 Trickle Towers soos ek sien by Danie Koch.

Ek het vandag met Danie gepraat en net soos Julie van EA gebruik hulle dit reeds meer as 3 jaar, zero Nitrate en baie maklik en eenvoudig om skoon te maak?

Trickle towers return to pond via a 200mm wide channel and a 1 meter film drop into pond.

Sou jy se dat ek sonder 'n underwater returns stelsel kan klaarkom of is dit nodig vir beter body shape. Net soos my taalgebruik kry ek baie mixed responses. Die een groep glo slegs diepte en air dome is belangrik en die ander se daar moet ook horisontale stroom wees.

Is die stoom wat vanaf die Tricke rerugvloei genoeg of moet daar onderewater returns wees?

Volgens my is die terugvloei van ‘n "trickle tower" nie genoeg nie. ‘n Onderwater terugvloei het verskeie funksies.

1. Dit verhoog die skommeling van water wat aantreklik lyk en voorsien "speelplek" vir die koi;
2 Dit help om suurstof arm water vanaf die bodem op boontoe te bring wat jou suurstof in die water verhoog en versprei oor die hele dam; Dit is veral van toepassing op ‘n diep dam van 2,5 m;
3 Dit maak ‘n geweldige verskil in "bodyshape" en hou die vis fiks en gesond;
4 Dit skep die moontlikheid om ‘n venturi te inkorporeer met "gratis" addisionele suurstof;
5 Dit kan dooie areas in jou dam aanspreek. Indien al die water terugvloei na een punt, kan dooie areas geskep word;
6 Dit dwing vuilgoed op die oppervlak na jou skimmer;

Ek sou drie terugvloei punte insit.
(1) Trickle tower terugvloei
(2) Venturi by oppervlak (vir ekstra suurstof en om vuilgoed na die skimmer te dwing)
(3) Terugvloei ongeveer 600 mm onder die oppervlak (vir bodyshape en om suurstof arm water boontoe te dwing)

Bobby, hier is nog twee links oor body shape en current.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Bobby,

ek stem basis saam met Paul.

Ek is egter 'n sandfilter-man en weet nie juis baie oor die Nexus nie. Ek weet dat Brain Lee dit gebruik het. Brain het ook gedurende die dag sy water se vloei-sterkte verhoog om sy Koi te "oefen" maar gedurende die nag het hy die afgestel sodat die Koi kon "rus"

As ons kyk na wat Koi benodig, moet ons die volgende by 'n Koi dam he:-
1. Goeie filtreer stelsel
2. Goeie water sirkulasie deur die filtreer stelsel (Turnover)
3. Genoeg suurstof
4. Goeie water terug voer na die dam en sirkulasie binne die dam.
5. Genoeg water volume (spasie) per vis

Hier in die suidelike halfrond is dit beter om die water vloei in die dam anti-kloksgewys te he. Ongeag of daarvan 'n geslote stelsel of swaardekrag stelsel gebruik gemaak word.

Op geen een van my damme het ek "air blowers" nie. Ek maak gebruik van watervalle, bo watervlak terug voer en op een dam het ek ook 'n "bakkie shower"
Die "venturi's" het ek ook so gestel dat dit nie onder die water is nie.
Gedurende die dag maak ek alle bo-oppervlak "inlets" toe waar moontlik, maar gedurende die nag maak ek die bo-oppervlakkete "inlets" oop en al die ander " inlets maak ek toe.

Ongeag dan van die stelsel, sal ek van kleppe gebruik maak om die water vloei te beheer met 'n redelike sterk pomp om die by te staan.

Die terug voer pype/inlaat, moet dan soos volg geplaas word.
1. Tenminste twee ongeveer 100mm bokant die dan vloer ( in twee teen oorgestelde hoeke) anti-kloksgewys geplaas word. Dit sal help om alle afval na die "Botton drains" aan te help.
2. "Mid-inlets" moet ook anti-kloksgewys geplaas word met 'n hoek van 45 grade afwaarts.
3. Bo oppervlak inlate ook anti-klok gewys geplaas.

Al hierdie inlate moet elk sy eie klep he, sodat die stroom strekte beheer kan word.

Ek hoop dit gee jou 'n idee hoe ek van 'n dan stelsel hou.

Hier is my 55 500lt filtreer stelsel:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Dit bestaan uit:

3 x 1,1 kW pompe
4 x 4 sak sand filters ( 3-5mm gruis) twee per pomp
1 x 3 sak sand filter ( 1-1,4mm sand) eie pomp
4 x 50lt ultraZap (druk) bio filters
3 x 25lt ultraZap (druk) bio filters
2 x 55wat uv ligte ( was nog nooit aangeskakel nie)

4 x bottom drains (50mm direk na pompe)
2 x wiers ( skimmers)

2 x botton inlets (50mm)
2 x mid-way inlets (50mm)
1 x water val (1 meter val)
1 x bakki shower (1,5 meter val)
1 x vegie oorspoel dammetjie

14 x kleppe ( 50mm)

Gaan loer by:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As jy nou mooi deur mekaar is, dink weer of jy wel 'n groter Koi dam wil bou

Hierdie is 'n baie ingewikkelde topic want daar is so baie viarables.

Ek het 'n diep kant (3m) en 'n vlak kant (1.5m) in my dam, ek het lyne onder die watervlak en 'n waterval lyn bo die watervlak. Ek het ook 'n airated bottom drain wat ek slegs gebruik om die dam tehelp skoon maak....as dit help vir iets anders is dit 'n bonus. Daar is oorgenoeg suurstof in my dam met lug in die biofilter en met 'n waterval en venturi wat altyd aan is.

My airated bottom drain is aan in die oggende van 9:00 - 12:00 an dan weer van 14:00 to 18:00. My venturi hardloop op sy sterkste gedurende die dag en in die aand stuur ek van sy water na 'n ander return.

Ek het opgelet dat my visse die meeste aktief is as die airated bottom drain af is. As hy af is swem hulle al in die ronte in formasie net onder die opppervlak van die water en hou daarvan om teen my venturi se stroom te swem oor en oor en oor. As die airated bottom drain aan is swem hulle baie dieper en hulle school nie, van hulle gaan le dan ook later liewer op die vloer van die vlak kant...dit kan meskien wees omdat my venturi en die aireated bottom drain in my diep kant is en hulle nie van die onstuimige water daar hou nie.

Weet nie of die informasie gaan help nie maar daar het jy dit nou in elkgeval.

Wayne

Nou Ja Bobby daar het jy dit nou van al die slim mense . Ek hoop jy kan nou by hou met die inligting. Sterkte met jou navorsing en die bou van jou dam!

Collin, Nou weet ek hoe voel 'n verkleurmannetjie in 'n box smarties

Hi Bobby,
Some additional thoughts and ideas to the excellent advice given above ...

The piping could develop anaerobic bacteria if not run continuously but this depends of several factors. Firstly the amount of organic material left in the piping when the pump is off. If it is not much organic material then the pump would have to be off for several days before this occurs.

I think you should consider returns to the pond as a means of exercising the koi if you had a shallow pond. The fact that you have a deep pond means the koi will get exercise simply by swimming against the pressure when they go to the bottom. This will save on complexity and costs.

Changing the flow on the pipes - keep the pond design as simple as possible. Don't over complicate things - it is expensive and often difficult to maintain.

The only way oxygen can be dissolved into water is through contact with the atmosphere. Following from this simple fact the faster the water is brought into contact with the atmosphere the better. You can do this with pumps of a decent volume and by drawing the water from the bottom (the point further most from the atmosphere).

Pumping the water over a trickle tower is the same as having a water fall - lots of oxygen back into the water. In order to achieve good growth and lustre you need good oxygen levels.

You do need some current in the pond and a single return to simply gently circulate the water would suffice. This would dissolve the incoming oxygen and dilute the impurities excreted by the koi. Also the koi need some rest.

I recall back in the early 90's a guy with a shallow pond but a ferocious return. The koi were swimming uphill all the way. And this was all around the pond which had become a vortex. They had body shapes like eels.

Air Dome Bottom Drains - not over fond of them. Firstly you are drawing the water downwards towards the bottom drain but you and now pushing the same water back up wards with the air. You may discover you have problems keeping the water clear as you are pushing water away from the very point you want to extract it - the bottom.

Having snorkelled in ponds with air stones I have found that they emit a high pitched frequency when you get close to them - almost a scream.

Achieving good body shape is firstly as others on this forum have said - genetics. Secondly nutrition plays an important role. Thirdly the exercise whether this is vertically in the case of a deep pond or with a current is the same thing.

Another point to keep in mind with air dome bottom drains - the air is being pumped down there under great pressure. Air under pressure is not good for koi because oxygen is only about 18% of the atmosphere and nitrogen is 80%. So you are pumping, under pressure, oxygen and a lot of nitrogen into the water.

I would suggest rather than invest in expensive air pumps for a koi pond use larger pumps (for faster circulation), larger pipe work to avoid frictional losses.

You will then be able to see your koi as the air dome bottom drains cause a lot a disturbance on the surface. Although you could place a plastic ring floating on the surface where the air bubble are. The turbulance will be contained within the ring and the rest of the pond surface will remain smooth.

Regards,
Chris