Transferred from another thread
Building a
pond with a water tank:
Initially posted by: verynewtokoi
Subject: Mmmmm Fri 16 May 2008 - 8:55
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My question stems from the fact that I am looking at converting a 5 000L water tank into a koi
pond.
The bottom outlet is 40mm, therefor my question. The tank dimentions are as follow (before I convert it) 1,840m (wide) X 2,200M (high). Basically what I want to do is cut the top of, burry it half way & brick up around the second half & clad & cope.
I want to take the bottom drain pipe & have gravity flow to a settlement chamber, and then either suck the water from there, or better yet, let it flow to a second chamber (via gravity) and then suck the water from there.
These kind of tanks have a second outlet close to the top, where I can add another 40mm pipe that could act as a surface skimmer to the settlement chamber as well.
Will it have any effect if I stepped up the pipe after the 40mm bottom connector to a 50mm or bigger pipe??
Or should I look to see if I can convert the bottom drain connection, from 40mm to 50mm? (I dont know if this will be possible?
Or add the "Skimmer outlet" from the top??
Please bear in mind that the
pond volume would roughly be 5000L.
Thanks for your valuable advice
Nelius
Joined : 18 Feb 2008
Posts : 11
Location : George, Southwest Cape
Subject: bottom drain Fri 16 May 2008 - 18:05
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My advise is to blank of the existing outlet or other wise use it as a jet inlet at the bottom of your
pond, then I would buy a 110 mm bottom drain for a liner
pond and install ot I will rather go for the 110 mm route
wayneb
Joined : 08 Dec 2007
Posts : 76
Location : Bellville, Cape Town
Subject: Re: calculations Fri 16 May 2008 - 18:56
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Hi Shawn
On a 5000L water tank i would:
1. Suck directly from the bottom drain with a swimming pool pump.
2. Not bother with a settlement chamber or vortex system for mechanical filtration.
3. Use a Speck Magic 6 (250Watt) Pump 10 000L/Hr
4. Use a 2bag Koi Sand filter as mechanical filtration.
5. Place your biological on the return line of the pump
6. Enlarge the 40mm connector to atleast 50mm (40mm is for moffies Think Big) for the bottom drain.
7. Add a airdome to the bottom drain.
All of this might sound strange but a 5000L tank is small enough for this setup to work. The only downside will be that you will have to clean the pump basket more often than people with settlement chambers and that is also only if you have a leave problem.
Enlarging the bottom drain 40mm pipe to 50mm after the adapter is useless as the 40mm will be your restriction.
The 40mm pipe for the skimmer should be OK.
If you want to use a settlement chamber with vortexes and all that stuff you will have to increase the bottom drain line to atleast 110ml.
Cheers
Wayne
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Joined : 25 Jul 2007
Posts : 376
Location : Cape Town
Subject: Re: calculations Mon 19 May 2008 - 11:11
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The connector on those tanks are on the side and not right at the (floor)bottom. Most of the junk will remain in the tank below the intended outlet to your chamber and will not properly work as a bottom drain.
It is quite easy to install a new tank connector right at the bottom of the tank leading to your settlement chamber and then your can either go the 50mm route and combine it with the existing 40 mm outlet, or just go the 110 mm route.
It is a matter of taking a jig saw, cut the circle, put some silicone on and insert the tank connector.
Instead of cutting the top off and end up with one narrow deep
pond, I would rather cut the tank in half and end up with 2 x 1,1 meter deep ponds connected to each other with a 110 mm pipe, with a bottom drain (right at the bottom on the floor) on each. The fish will be happier and you will end up with more natural food because of the larger surface area, your will be able to see the fish better and the whole setup will look better. On the top half, you will just have to silicone the lid properly, turn it around and do your bottom drain with a tank connector on the lid itself.(deepest point)
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Paul Viljoen
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Subject: Re: calculations Mon 19 May 2008 - 13:51
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I would consider something like this (which I considered at one stage for two liner ponds next to each other)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]This can be done below, above or halfway above ground level(boxed)
If you cover the setup with decking and only leave the two ponds open with a bit of an overhang and create lids in the deck for access to the settlement chamber and biofilter, it will look quite nice.
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Paul Viljoen
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] verynewtokoi
Joined : 05 May 2008
Posts : 12
Subject: Re: calculations Tue 20 May 2008 - 19:35
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Does this mean you effectively have two ponds?
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Location : Cape Town
Subject: Re: calculations Yesterday at 10:53
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Yes, although they will have the same water and same filtration and the smaller fish can move around from the one to the other if the 110 mm connection has been used.
You will notice that the small fish will hide inside the 110mm connection when they sense danger.
Another advantage is that you can separate the two ponds from time to time, for instance when you have health problems and wish to treat only one or only a few fish and you do not have a seperate hospital facility.
You can also separate them when you wish to quarantine new fish in the one section, and open it up again after successfull quarantine.
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Paul Viljoen
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] verynewtokoi
Joined : 05 May 2008
Posts : 12
Subject: Thanks Yesterday at 15:26
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Okay... mmmmm... lets see
I must admit your initial suggestions of the two
pond concept, came at me completely out of left field
So thank you for giving me a bit more clarity on it, your explenation on why the 110mil conextion between the two ponds also makes allot more sence..(i.e. smaller fish swimming through) I reacon even my two biggest fish are now around (30-35cm) would still be able to fit trough??
I need to go and measure my space & see if I can fit two in, but assuming I can, I have the following questions;
1) What is the benifit of greater surface area?
2) You mention that there will be more natural food available? Why
3) Can anyone here suggest ways in which I can make this look like one
pond? (i.e. do the coping so that it looks like a figure 8 or hide the middle by way of a fake bridge??) The only provisor is that it needs to be unobstructive as possible to the viewing of the koi from my deck.
4) can one make this system 100% gravity fed? (I would love to try and design something like that as I still have waterflow when our friends at Escom lets us down )
Other concerns
Submersable pumps in my book means allot more maintanace (Any other options) or how do I lemit this.
The two 110ml bottomdrains means the cost would go up quite a bit
But it might be worth it ??
Thecnically this means allot more cutting & sealing---- How do I do the 110ml connection between the two halfes of the
pond? AND MAKE SURE IT IS LEAK PROOF??
If I want to be able to seperate the water volume between the ponds I think that would effectively double the cost??
As you would need to put a valve in the 110ml interleading pipe? Have two seperate settlement chaimbers & returns for it to be effective ?? Else the water will just mix in the settlement chaimbers? & If you use a pump driven system, two pumps.
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Subject: Re: calculations Yesterday at 16:28
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Greater surface area = more sunlight and thus more growth of organisms and warmer water = more natural food = better growth rate.
Submersible pumps does not mean more maintenance. It is a cheaper option for a small
pond and the electricity bill is much lower. You only need one for both ponds @ 16o watts/5000 l/h
The system suggested is gravity fed.
You can do the connection of the two ponds with two 110 mm liner
pond bottom drains.
Because each system will have only 2500 liters, a 50 mm bottom drain together with the 40 mm existing (side) connections on each system should be good enough. ( 2 x 50 and 2 x 40 for only 5000 liters)
The costs will not double. It is the same tank, still one settlement chamber, one bio filter, one pump in the bio filter chamber, pulling water from your settlement chamber and back into both ponds. Only a few extra connectors/piping.
You don't need a valve on the 110 mm piping. When you want to separate the two from time to time, you just put PVC ends on the bottom drain, inter connecting pipe and inlet and when you want to combine it again, you just remove the ends again.
When you need one for hospital/QT tank(which is not going to happen often), you can get away with water changes and an airstone in the one system that are being used as hospital/QT.
Obviously the ideal would be to have the possibility to run the two systems totally independant if required. It depends on your budget.
I suggested a deck because with a deck over the two systems, you can easily create the effect of one
pond with a narrow bridge over the
pond, and it can blend in with your existing deck. In other words, you box the whole system and just cut out the areas on top where the two ponds are, and leave an overhang to hide the ugly tanks. Then you cut out access from the top to the two filters and make lids with hinges with the wood that you cut out.
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Paul Viljoen
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Joined : 05 May 2008
Posts : 12
Subject: Re: calculations Today at 10:47
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I measured up my space, it doesn't allow me two use the two halves concept no matter how I try and configure the two haves.
I checked again with the supplier of the water tanks, I could possibly consider using the 5500L tank.
The dimentions are different it is 1.750mm (high) & 2200mm (wide), with a bit of luck I should be able to make this fit.
This is a more expensive option as this tank is roughly R 1 500.00 more expensive than the 5000L. However the surface area is allot (43%) bigger, and it is not so deep.
This will give me 3.80 square meters as aposed to 2.65 squares.
I would then probably consider one 110mm bottomdrain to a settlement Chamber, to a bio station then perhaps the submersable retunring to the
pond.
I was thinking of using the top 40mm outlet as a surface skimmer to the setthement chaimber, but what do I do with the bottom one?
What do you guys think about this system?? Please crit!
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