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 Price of Japanese Imported Koi

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Neli

Neli

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PostSubject: Price of Japanese Imported Koi   Price of Japanese Imported Koi Icon_minitimeThu Apr 12, 2012 5:47 pm

I must admit, I have been very ignorant on the subject....very!
There is not much info on the Internet.
I am lucky I came here for a holidays, and education with a bonus of buying few Koi. I am a business woman, and if the idea was to come here to buy cheap koi, it was not going to make any sense... Since if I add all the expenses, it was going to be much cheaper for me to buy better Koi imported in SA from Japan by dealers.
As U know by now, the word why, is always on the tip of my thang. I always try to understand things and am never shy to ask questions.
it was good that I had two very good friends dealers to answer my questions, which I am sure exhausted them.
This is basically what I have gathered.
Breeders produce millions of fry...which are culled to 3-4000 per spawn. Make no mistake, even within this there are many mutts, if not most of them are cheap Koi.
Koi goes through a vigorous selection, and the breeder guards his best tosai. After all those are going to bring him profit.
Dealers sale their koi in different ways.
Some will remove their tategoi, and grade the rest of the koi in two or three ponds according to value.
Every thing is for sale. Including the tategoi. But not many dealers will be given access to them. Only few, very special customers will be allowed even near them, and the price will be very expensive. Almost as much as if it is a nisai of a very very good quality.
The rest of the tosai will be offered for sale from October onwards. Every person that comes and picks from that pond will try and pick the best ones. As they are being picked up, koi of lesser quality remain, and the price of the fish drops, eventually drastically reducing by the end of the season, when the breeders need to get rid of them, and only put their tategoi in the mad ponds.
At this point some ponds may be sold at a very reduced price as a whole pond and not individual fish.
Just remember that in any of this ponds U need to buy a box, unless U are buying a very expensive fish. Now U tell me how many individual hobbyists would like to buy a box of the same fish?
Here comes the dealer, assisting U to put one or two Koi in his box.
Next are breeders that don't really sort their Small tosai, but sale them per scoop at very reduced prices.
They say they are not sorted, but I am sure that all the tategoi are removed.
Some of this scoops are really terrible. Maybe even worse that garden center Koi.
They totally refuse selection from this ponds. They say that they will select the koi for U just before packing...and who would like to go and buy Koi he does not know the quality of before paying for them?
They also offer U the option, to upp the price...and tell them what your budget is, and they will select the quality for which U pay....I got a half box like that, and our agent said he will make sure he selects them, but I am very uneasy about it.
We will just have to wait and see what happens.
But for short the breeders know exactly what they are selling U, and will never make a mistake.
So already here your chances are reduced of buying a bargain.
Next comes the dealer.
He will select a box or two from the same pond. Ones he reaches his premises, he will look at the Koi...not two will be of the same quality even if he bought them at the same price. If he is a clever dealer, and knows what he is doing, he will grade them, and put different prices. If he does not do that, he will have the best Koi sold first, and remain with some at the end which will be hard to sale at that price and will have to be drastically reduced or they will just stay there and cost him more to keep and feed.
So a second selection is made by the dealer, and again your chances of a deal are reduced further.
How is the costing done.
The breeder knows what it cost him to grow his tosai...a figure was mentioned...which I dont recall very well, but if I am not mistaken it was Y 10 per tosai. He has lots of other expenses and has to make a profit too. So he comes up with a figure, he has to obtains from his sales.
That figure is a achieved by the above methods of sales...as u have to remember that the best are kept to be grown as nisai.
Now for the dealer....
He has lots of expenses in order to go to Japan and buy the Koi. Tickets, accommodation, living expenses....are obvious.
But what most koi hobbyists don't realize is that for a cheap Koi, the transport can be twice or more times the value of the Koi. Fees like 25 % agent fees, health certificate transport to a airport, handling of the shipment at departure and arrival, and R 1350 plus other charges per box, making it almost R1500
Per kg.
Now let's take an example of a tosai 20-25 cm. they go around ten in a box, which will cost U around R 4000 to transport...don't forget duty and VAT too.
For short just the transport cost of that tosai will be R 400 each. Add to that the profit the dealer has to make.
If U are. A dealer, and went to Japan, taking lots of risks and expenses to buy that Koi, how much profit will U try to make on that tosai?
Imagine U expect to buy that tosai at R 1000 , deduct from it R 400 , deduct some risk factors like some will not be sold, some might die, some might need to be kept for a long time, while your expenses are mounting...for short some kind of insurance....let's put it at R 100 per Koi, which for me is very little.
U are remaining with R500 to cover the cost of the koi and the profit for the dealer.
Don't forget that this Koi will also have to be in QT for a month, and medication will be used, which is not cheap.
Also don't forget that the dealer has spent at list R25000 on ticket and hotels and railway pass, that is terribly expensive in Japan. So probably R 2oo will have to be added to the cost of the koi, to cover that.
So for short the expenses of a dealer will be: transport, cost of koi, accidentals and some kind of insurance and ticket and other traveling expenses.
How mush profit would U accept, from that R1000 return, considering all the risks involved?
Do U think the remaining R300 will cover the cost of the Koi and the profit of the dealer?
I can tell U it will not!
Let's say U. Allow the dealer a mean R150 profit, and the cost of the Koi R 150 too.
If U think U are going to find a koi in Japan for R 150, that U will not be embarrassed to show in public, And has any future , U are terribly mistaken.
With koi U get what U pay for....have no illusion that U will find  a gem in a 50 or 150 rand vat.
The fact that U are buying a Koi for R1000 , should tell U a lot!
I always thought that dealers are just profiteering and making excess profit on me....that is what I thought in my ignorance, until I saw it with my own eyes.
I was actually asked by James, how much profit he should put in his Koi...I was  shocked when he told me that he is putting 25% only...I told him he is not a businessman, and if it was me, considering all the factors, I will never settle for less than 100% .
The answer was, that he wants to sale them fast....I honestly don't get it...not one little bit.
My advise to my fellow hobbyists that want to show is
Dont  buy cheap koi, that a year from now U will try to sale at a loss, simply because they failed to perform, and U want a better Koi.
If the price of a Koi is R1000 u should realize that U are buying a cheap Koi, and don't expect much from it.
Instead of buying several cheap koi, buy one good quality Koi that will make U proud for many years to come.
We all learn through mistakes. I hope this will help some of U.
Again a dealer depends very much on a breeder And what kind of relationship he has established with a breeder. And for that relationship to be good the dealer needs to support the breeder, by buying lots of Koi from him.
The same can be with hobbyists and dealer relationship, but remember U are a customer! Shop around and don't rush, if U want to find the best koi for U.
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Neli

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PostSubject: Re: Price of Japanese Imported Koi   Price of Japanese Imported Koi Icon_minitimeFri Apr 13, 2012 11:51 pm

Admin,
Can U please correct my heading. It was meant to read price of koi in Japan.
Do t know how it ended up like this.
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costa j

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PostSubject: Re: Price of Japanese Imported Koi   Price of Japanese Imported Koi Icon_minitimeSat Apr 14, 2012 10:43 am


Hi Nelli,

i'm glad that you enjoyed yourself in Japan, and as you said it's not an easy trip, [ very tyreing ].

Thank you very much for your article, very well said, hopefully people will realise what dealers go through too bring them that "ONE" fish. Ronnie Botha came with me to Japan in March, and as he also said , IT WAS A HELL OF AN EYE OPENER.

Once again Thank you.

Regards,
Costa.

P S --- Enjoy your new babies.
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Neli

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PostSubject: Re: Price of Japanese Imported Koi   Price of Japanese Imported Koi Icon_minitimeSat Apr 14, 2012 5:32 pm

Costa,
It was an eye opener for me!
It made me realize how ignorant I was up to date.
I went to Japan to learn, and I think I learned something.
Little bit, but better than nothing.
I honestly don't know how U people manage with the profit margin U work on.
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PostSubject: Re: Price of Japanese Imported Koi   Price of Japanese Imported Koi Icon_minitimeSun Apr 15, 2012 10:03 pm

Hi Neli, sorry for the late reply, I have changed the heading and thank you for the article. It is fairly spot on and info that not everybody realises. Together with the risks involved loosing fish, the profit margin of the average dealer is not what people think and it is not an easy way of making money. I am doing it because it is my passion, and not for the money.

Clients often look at the price you pay for a whole box, wants the cream of the crop, but want to pay the average price per fish in tha box, not considering that any box will have fish that noboby wants, you always get duds, or fish that develop badly, and you have to care fo the fish until they are sold.

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Koi are not my whole life but make my life whole
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costa j

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PostSubject: Re: Price of Japanese Imported Koi   Price of Japanese Imported Koi Icon_minitimeMon Apr 16, 2012 9:37 am


Nelli,

I'm happy you see Dealers in a different light, [ hope more people read your article.] We were seen like Goverment Officials, EISH. Laughing Laughing Twisted Evil

Paul,

Your reply is spot on, Thanks.
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Neli

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PostSubject: Re: Price of Japanese Imported Koi   Price of Japanese Imported Koi Icon_minitimeMon Apr 16, 2012 11:30 am

I am glad U like it Costa,
But it was not meant to help U dealers....I am sure U know what U are doing.
It was meant to help hobbyists understand better what they are doing, and if they are serious about showing, how to go about it.
I was one of those that did not understand anything about Koi not so long ago.
I hope I have learned something, even a little...it is better than nothing.
Some of this things U need to experience them in order to understand them.
Admin,
Thanks for changing the title!
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PostSubject: Re: Price of Japanese Imported Koi   Price of Japanese Imported Koi Icon_minitimeMon Apr 16, 2012 11:50 am


Nelli, it does help the hobbyists to trust the Dealer of their choice better, it seems to me you have learnt quite a bit with your Japan trip. Enjoy the hobby.

Cheers,
Costa.


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Neli

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PostSubject: Re: Price of Japanese Imported Koi   Price of Japanese Imported Koi Icon_minitimeMon Apr 16, 2012 11:52 am

Thanks Costa!
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PostSubject: Re: Price of Japanese Imported Koi   Price of Japanese Imported Koi Icon_minitimeTue Apr 24, 2012 11:00 am

An excellent article Neli thank you.

The costs of q/tine are horrendous when done properly. Our facility costs salaries, rent, water, electricity etc. Which is why quarantining done locally is so piss poor. Anyway. Always been our gripe and it won't change anytime soon! :-)
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