Not good or very bad quality???

This is what i would call Petshop Koi's.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and someone at a petshop might like it but i don't think any serious koi keeper will buy them.

Some notes:

1. The one fish has a gill problem or something...in japan most breeders would have culled it as they are very strict on gills.

Thanks for your reply,

I agree with you that they are not good quality.

But, i paid very little to buy those koi, so i am not expecting too much from them.

Hi sas,

How about this one I bred myself ?
Not the best picture sorry.

Not bad, bot Bad at all...you may now move to japan and call yourself a breeder.

bot??? Whats going on with my fingers today?

Sass, the bodyshape is very bad for a small koi. The patterns unbalanced, The white is not pure, the head(very important when it comes to Kujaku) is not clear, and the lustre is poor.


Compare it to one of my average Doitsu Kujaku's of almost the same size:



(Also not a perfect example but much better)

Kujaku, being a metallic, is mainly judged by the lustre and quality of shine, but also the pattern, scales, and it is important that it has a clean head.

Paul, that is a very nice looking koi.

The pic by SAS : The raised gills on the one koi is that because of a problem with the gills or does it appear raised because of the narrow body shape of the koi.

I have no metallic koi in my pond, maybe i should get some.

Wayne

Thanks for your reply,

You have very nice Doitsu Kujaku. (I guess it is Doitsu Kujaku from Chogoro???)

Your Doitsu Kujaku is much better than my one , but since i paid very little money for my Doitsu Kujaku, so i guess i can't require too much from it...

Admin wrote:

Sass, the bodyshape is very bad for a small koi. The patterns unbalanced, The white is not pure, the head(very important when it comes to Kujaku) is not clear, and the lustre is poor.


Compare it to one of my average Doitsu Kujaku's of almost the same size:



(Also not a perfect example but much better)

Kujaku, being a metallic, is mainly judged by the lustre and quality of shine, but also the pattern, scales, and it is important that it has a clean head.

Hi Jaco,

Your self bred Doitsu Kujaku is very nice, how old is she now? And how big?

Jaco wrote:

Hi sas,

How about this one I bred myself ?
Not the best picture sorry.

The pic was taken almost two years ago.
Now she is about 60cm 3 years old

Hi Wayneb,

I also notice the gill problem when i buy them, but this is the only Doitsu Kujaku the dealer have. Since they are going for very cheap, so i just buy them to add some metallic color to my pond.

By i completely agree with you that this is pet shop quality koi.

wayneb wrote:

Paul, that is a very nice looking koi.

The pic by SAS : The raised gills on the one koi is that because of a problem with the gills or does it appear raised because of the narrow body shape of the koi.

I have no metallic koi in my pond, maybe i should get some.

Wayne

Jaco wrote:

The pic was taken almost two years ago.
Now she is about 60cm 3 years old

Whose the parent of she?

Do you have pic. of the parent?

Was the parent import from Japan?

I personally love the metallics. They stand out in the pond so much more.

For example, look at the the same Kujaku with a metallic Sanke(Heisei Nishiki) against the Showa and especially the black Haijiro.



I believe the gills look raised on the Kujaku's of Sass because of the big head in relation to the body. (sometimes Gill infection) This is often caused by overcrouding of small fish resulting in malnitrition, but sometimes it is caused by a bacterial infection.

sas,
Here is a picture of the parents as Tosai when I got them, both from Japan.


The female when I sold her and sadly regret today.


The above Kujaku as Tosai at about 25cm, the top one in the picture.
The other is also from the same spawning.

Jaco wrote:

sas,
Here is a picture of the parents as Tosai when I got them, both from Japan.


The female when I sold her and sadly regret today.


The above Kujaku as Tosai at about 25cm, the top one in the picture.
The other is also from the same spawning.

Your parent koi are very nice, how big and how old were them at frist time you use them for breeding?

They were three years old when I bred with them the first time.
About 60+cm.
The male Kujaku is over 75cm now and growing, very good spawner.

Lucky me!!!!!

Here is the female, she is now 78cm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sakoi/59278972/


Pieter
http://southafricankoi.11.forumer.com

wayneb wrote:

I have no metallic koi in my pond, maybe i should get some.

Wayne

Hi Wayne

In my view a pond without bling, is like a woman without at least one diamond – a total disaster and complete abnormality.


Seriously, invest in a good quality one - you won't be sorry.

Regards
Rezanne

sas wrote:

Hi Wayneb,

I also notice the gill problem when i buy them, but this is the only Doitsu Kujaku the dealer have. Since they are going for very cheap, so i just buy them to add some metallic color to my pond.

Hi Sas,
The main thing to remember is that although you got the Koi cheaply, they take up exactly the same space in your pond as good quality Koi and they consume exactly the same volume of food.

So, cheap becomes expensive in the long run as they will not (really) appreciate in cost – that's is you want to sell them at some stage.

My point of view is to wait until I can purchase good quality Koi rather than to spend a few pennies of a fish that most probably will be culled sometime down the line to free up space in a pond.

It can be annoying to wait to buy a Koi, but in the end it is well worth it.

Enjoy your Koi
Rezanne

Rezanne wrote:

sas wrote:

Hi Wayneb,

I also notice the gill problem when i buy them, but this is the only Doitsu Kujaku the dealer have. Since they are going for very cheap, so i just buy them to add some metallic color to my pond.

Hi Sas,
The main thing to remember is that although you got the Koi cheaply, they take up exactly the same space in your pond as good quality Koi and they consume exactly the same volume of food.

So, cheap becomes expensive in the long run as they will not (really) appreciate in cost – that's is you want to sell them at some stage.

My point of view is to wait until I can purchase good quality Koi rather than to spend a few pennies of a fish that most probably will be culled sometime down the line to free up space in a pond.

It can be annoying to wait to buy a Koi, but in the end it is well worth it.

Enjoy your Koi
Rezanne

Hi! Rezanne,

Thanks for your advice , i will start saving money now and but a nice Doitsu Kujaku in the future. But in South Africa, i don't see many second hand koi selling or buying happening. Seems like there is no second hand koi market in SA. Or maybe it's happening but just don't notice it???

To me, it seems like koi keepers in SA are diffrent from koi keeper in Asia. SA koi keepers are more careful about KHV. So, they are not willing to buy from an unknow koi keeper, even the koi is in very high quality and at a very low price. (i.e. The only people who are willing to buy "high quality low priced" koi from an unknow koi keeper is those who want to enter the koi in a show immediately after they bought that koi.)

Or, maybe i am wrong. Because i haven't been in SA long enough, so i am not sure how the second hand koi market in SA works...

SAS

sas,
I think second hand koi are mostly bought by beginners who wants big koi from the start.

Jaco wrote:

sas,
I think second hand koi are mostly bought by beginners who wants big koi from the start.

Hi Jaco,

I would like to ask your opinion on the following question:

Fro example, if i am able to breed some very high quality tategoi Go-Sanke of +-15cm (Japanese Quality), and i am a unknow breeder or unknow koi keeper in SA. (i.e. Tategoi Go-Sanke of +-15cm most of the time don't show very good colour at this size.) Is it true that i will have great difficulty selling them to the local koi keeper??? Because simply people just don't know me and don't trust me???

SAS

Like you said, it all depends on price, people are more prepared to take a chance with a nice cheap koi than a good expensive koi.