Hi,
How do you think this 18 - 20cm Showa will develop?

Regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,

I think it will become a Shiro Utsurimono.

Hi Chris,

I reckon it would lose the tancho spot and become a Shiro Utsuri.

Would say it could be a pretty decent SU if that sumi is to come out on it's nose leaving some shiro to break it up in place of where the beni is now. I'd like to think theres too much black in the pectorals and tail.

Otherwise I think it's nice

@ Pieter....clicked on submit and told me some other oke was posting ....seems you just beat me to it

Yip, I agree it will become a Shiro Utsuri.

Hi,

Bought at the SAKKS show last year in March: 18 - 20cm in length



Same fish one year later now 42cm


It just shows you how difficult it is to predict the development of a koi.

Regards,
Chris

I thought that when hi \ beni is gone it's gone.......so would this not be a Beni Matsukawabaki?

I'm amazed to see the hi\beni that resurfaced on this fish.....is this a 1 in a million chance or is this normal???

eish!!! I guess we were wrong

Just shows you; never judge a Koi from a photo!

Chris 1 Forum 0

Chris, what do you put in that Shogun of yours? Red pigments?

hahaha, some serious red pigments!!!

hmmm... some serious photo shopping going on here. lol

ive never ever seen that before. In 99.999999999999'% of the time the fish would have lost the red mark and changed into a shiro utsuri.

I liked it better when it was small.

This is really an unique development.

Herewith a photo of the second(in between) stage that Chris has send me a few days ago which will "confirm" that photoshop was not involved.

It seems like pigmentation can be more sensitive on some koi than on others. I had a client that wanted a black koi. I got him 2 black koi's from a friend in East London and brought them down to quarantine for him. 30 min in quarantine (QT tank is white) the one was a greyish/blue ochiba and the other was a ginrin chagoi with a light brown colour to it.

After 3 weeks I moved them from the quarantine tank to another pond with black on the inside and within 20min these fish were pitch black again!!

Daai koi is so gebroei hulle noem dit die nuwe Cameleon-koi hehehe

...en Pieter : Chris 1 : Forum 0. Hy kan nie namens ander 'posters' praat nie. Ek glo meeste van ons het geweet dat dit 'n Hi Utsuri sou word

Ja Jack dis hoekom ek nie gepos het. Dit was tog so duidelik soos daglig.

I wanted to post and was also going to say I agree it will become an Shiro Utsuri, and that it had too much sumi for my liking. Fortunately never got round to it.

Anyway I think it is a nice Hi Utsuri now.

Or still a showa if it has white left

Hi Jack,

My soul is tired, My body worn, My brain is dead, My heart is torn...

so ...............

Chris don't doubt but find this almost impossible to believe. If this is true then it goes against everything I know or have seen about koi. in fact the reverse process it possible - hi utsuri with weak hi losing hi untill you get a bad show or shiro utsuri. wheres the catch?

Hi,

In answer to Neville's question - I suggest that this has become a Hi Showa - because of the white still left in places. Without white it would be a Hi Utusri. (Also check on the belly for white).

There are many in the Koi Society and on this forum who are much better at classifying koi than I. But that’s what I would say.

There is no catch. But it does show just how difficult it is to select a young koi for future potential. And it does show that the average koi keeper, like you and I, has a chance of keeping some really good koi.

In this particular case the white on the original baby koi was actually very good - yes, there was too much black, but the good white did not bear and hint of red. If it had turned to a Shiro Utsuri it would probably have been a very good Utsuri because of the original good white. And that threw us all off track. It is an unusual case therefore it is more genetical than anything else. What’s going to be interesting to see in a few years time if this particular koi does lose its hi and does eventually end up an Shiro Utsuri!

We tend to forget that genetics plays a critical part in each INDIVIDUAL koi. How big it will grow, what the colour will be etc. So while there are very good blood lines and breeders etc - it still comes down to individual genetics.

Keeping that in mind and remember a good koi has a good chance of developing into a better koi. A poor koi will always stay a bad koi.

When I buy babies I grow them for at least three years to give them a chance to develop. But if during that time a Kohaku turns to a Shiro Muji it goes out of the collection. But after three years I then keep one or two, if I am lucky. I keep these and sell the rest off or give them away. In this way I develop my collection and have the pleasure of watching the young ones grow.

Definition of a Shiro:
SHIRO: Although shiro is translated as plain white it must be the ultimate expression of the way a tategoi can develop. "shiro, Shiro, SHIRO - it lost all it's bloody colour".

You want to have some fun with strange definitions of Koi Names?

Regards,
Chris