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 Wound from injection my KOI

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Brkic



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PostSubject: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 3:10 pm

This is 14 days old scar of Ovaprim injection,and I think that is not normal look.
This is my 1st experience about inject the fish, 2 fish have wound(this is a bigest) and 5 is OK.
In the picture is hole where is see a meat but no bloody.
I remove dead scales and disinfect the wound.

Dou you have some advice ?
What is your think about that wound and what I must to do now ?

Wound from injection my KOI 1_86

Wound from injection my KOI 2_44

where is the best place to inject antibiotic ?
Admin says "just behind the pectoral fin where there is a soft area without scales"
is that plase on picture, pectoral muscle, or something else ?
Wound from injection my KOI Mr5


Last edited by Brkic on Wed May 26, 2010 7:56 pm; edited 3 times in total
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bobby

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 3:31 pm

Hi Brkic
The injection should go in at an 45% degree angle toward the head of the Koi, should you have injected it straight some of the organs could be damaged.
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Brkic



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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 3:37 pm

Are you talk about IP-Intraperitoneally inject or IM-intramuscularly ?

have you some picture?
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wayneb

wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 7:26 pm

do you have any bigger pictures? Its very difficult to see.
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Brkic



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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 7:58 pm

pictures is change.
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 8:22 pm

Hi brkic

Where are you based? You really need for someone to come and show you.
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Brkic



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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 9:22 pm

I`m from Serbia and here in no vet for fish.
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 9:48 pm

Ok that is a bit far for anyone of us to come to your aid.

Do you have Potasium Permanganate?

Peroxide vol 10

Mercurochrome or gentions violet

or an antibiotic cream

Any of the above?


Last edited by Neville on Wed May 26, 2010 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Brkic



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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 9:50 pm

yes,

Potasium Permanganate,

Did you mean Peroxide vol 10=Hydrogen peroxide, I use Hydrogen peroxide 3% to disinfect wound.

I try with antibiotic cream but fish is wet(after antiseptic) and ointment
will not stay on fish ?


Last edited by Brkic on Wed May 26, 2010 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 10:01 pm

Difficult to help I dont know what is available to you, you say no vet?

The wound looks quite clean to me but please check your water quality.

Ok for now mix some potassium into a paste and apply lightly to the wound every 3 to 4 days.

If you have any antibiotic cream you can also apply that over th potasium.

It would be interesting to for us to know what your whole setup looks like.
Please post some pic,s and details of your pond and filtration.
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 10:08 pm

Ok so it seems you have some stuff available.

I rather inject in the tail area or then at the end of the dorsil fin to one side of it with the needle entering under a scale at an angle towards the head area.

I will post a photo of the correct method tomorrow.
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 10:15 pm

Yes but you have to dry wipe the area before you apply the cream and then if you have some freyers balm spray that over the area afterwards.
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Brkic



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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 10:23 pm

I use Iodine to disinfect wound every 2 days.
Fish is on quarantine tank.
I try with antibiotic cream but fish is wet(after antiseptic) and ointment will not stay on fish.
Yes I try to dry wipe the area before you apply the cream nut no different.

Some USA koi vet suggest me to give a antibiotic (Baytril).

I dont now what is a "freyers balm spray".

I`m injected 7 koi on same time in Dorsal fin (IM), 4 male(half dose of
female) and 3 female, only female have wound.I dont now why but this female on picture is the bigest wound. Another female have very small wound.


Last edited by Brkic on Wed May 26, 2010 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 10:31 pm

Yes I doubted that you would hjave freyers balm.

Yes you can use Baytril or what also works well is gentamycin. Just stick to the dosage, dont over dose.

Have a look at this also

http://southafricankoi.11.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=547&highlight=injection&sid=9587376ceceb9a8a4a6650f89092f4b5
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 10:37 pm

Also have a look at this for some information.

https://koionline.forumotion.com/faq-f28/how-to-administer-an-injection-t727.htm?highlight=injection.

I believe your antibiotics injection does not work and you should change to one of the other two. The injection should show improvement within a day or two. The wound should start to show a whitish colour.
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 10:38 pm

Also have a look at this for some information.

http://southafricankoi.11.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=547&highlight=injection&sid=9587376ceceb9a8a4a6650f89092f4b5


I believe your antibiotics injection does not work and you should change to one of the other two. The injection should show improvement within a day or two. The wound should start to show a whitish colour.


Last edited by Neville on Wed May 26, 2010 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wayneb

wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 10:44 pm

Hi Brkic

You have done a good job in cleaning the wound.

I would suggest that you mix some Melchalite green crystals with frairs balsam. Make sure the wound is clean and dry before applying. After you have applied it use a hair dried (on cold) to dry the liquid. If you dont have Malchalite green crystals you can use some Potassium Permangenate instead or Methylene Blue crystals.

Incase you dont know frairs balsam or it goes by some other name. Read this article. http://www.herbaled.org/THM/Compounds/friars.html

Once you have applied it you need to keep doing it weekly. Dont clean the wound again after the 1st time otherwise you will remove the cells thats healing itself.

Certain anti-biotics works better if its injected in diffirent places. Baytril is the most common anti-biotic and one injects that into the ball of the pectoral fin. Its best to have a swab taken of the wounf and sent away for analysis - so that you know which ant-biotic works best....but for now i would just try the topical treatments.

Hope this info helps.

Wayne
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 10:46 pm

Always a problem with women lol!

I think it is just a matter the state of the fish or some coincidence.

It however concerns me if you have so many sick fish. You must please have a serious look at your water quality and make sure your bio filter is clean.
How is your stock levels?

Hi Wayne
waar val jy uit jong. Man die outjie het nie n vet naby nie, so n swab gaan seekr moeilik wees.
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Brkic



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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 10:51 pm

what is a structure of freyers balm ?
I loocking for FRIAR'S BALSAM in human pharmacy but don`t know for that product.

I wish to use Baytril but I don`t know where to inject IM or IP.
Can you explain me how I must inject the fish IP.
When I injected IP-Inter Peritoneal I have scare that I maybe pike(rip) a
bowels or make some other damage.
And can you explain me how I must inject the fish in pectoral fin (no
scales there), but pectoral fin is too small and i have scare to make some
damage.
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Neville

Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 11:04 pm

I have posted two links for you earlier on in two postings, Open them they show you clearly how to do it.

For the hobyist the intramuscular injection is the safest one only experienced people should administer the iIP-Inter Peritoneal injection.
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Brkic



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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 11:22 pm

Neville I dont understand you,
"I believe your antibiotics injection does not work and you should change to one of the other two. " antibiotics does not work
and
"The injection should show improvement within a day or two. The wound should start to show a whitish colour." antibiotics work

wayneb
I know that adress http://www.herbaled.org/THM/Compounds/friars.html but I dont found anything same in pharmacy.

I found this for Baytril(1 shot a day over the course of 10 days- http://www.backyardpuddle.ca/health.html) and USA koi vet say inject 1,3,5 day with Baytril. What is a true.
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Neville

Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 11:49 pm

Sorry let me try again,

What I am trying to say, is that if the antibiotics is correct then it must show an improvement on the wound within a day or two.

When you look closely at the wound after say 2 days it should not show any open flesh anymore and you should notice improvement.

Normally a faint white is noticed around the outside and a transparent like skin starts to form over the wound, which later also turns the color of the skin in the effected area.
Once this is noticed one can leave the fish alone and it would heal.

These injections, when correct, on fish is supposed to work fast.

Hope I am clear now if not please tell me.

The other point I am trying to make is this, if no improvement is noticed after 2 days then your antibiotics is not doing it's job, it is either expired or just not able to assist with the healing process and a different type should be used.

You should very seldom need more than two injections unless the wound is very bad.
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Brkic



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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 11:56 pm

Thank Neville, I`m now understand.
That say my friend(vet) too, but they are no experience with fish(only horse,sheep...)
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2010 11:59 pm

You are welcome my friend

Let us know the progress, but check your water.
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Pieter J de Villiers

Pieter J de Villiers

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PostSubject: Re: Wound from injection my KOI   Wound from injection my KOI Icon_minitimeThu May 27, 2010 2:40 pm

Hi,

Well I never thought that there would be Koi in the East block! Do you live in Belgrade (Beograd)?

Read the following link to understand better.

http://southafricankoi.11.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=3277#3277
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