Thanks Chris
With my little experience I agree with most what has been said here, water volume, stocking levels, regular and in my opinion smaller water changes is of utmost importance. This is some of the lessons my new pond is showing me every day. There is no shortcuts for the more serious Koi hobbyist. I had a visitor a couple days back and the first thing she commented on was that my Koi looked so much more comfortable compared to the old 10 000l environment. Well that is so true and it feels like they have overnight become very tame and peaceful. Looking at the daily changes thus far, I can with confidence f/cast that this environment will give me more than satisfactory growth.

In the previous pond they always looked scared and restless, in the new pond environment I only have to turn off the air and they would come up to the surface and in the window area and allow me to stroke them very up close and personal.

Well the 10 000l is also at the best it has ever been, but with less and smaller Koi, they look extremely happy. May I also add that I never exceeded the 1000l per Koi at a length of 60cm on my 10 000l pond

I would be stunned if there is not automated backup electricity plan on a koi pond like this if i look at the other systems thats in place on it.

What can we deduce from this example? Pond volume might not play such a big role as the other paramters...

I think its better to average all the parameters out, i still prefer a bigger pond. If you have a small pond as in this example then you have to increase the other factors like oxygen, food, water quality and turn around times to compensate.

Yotti wrote:

This one of the reason made me try to keep koi in small pond because it is easy to control everything. I would say one day about 8%water change for my pond.

8% water changes daily

Im not sure if anything bad can come from the B12 injections or suppliments.

Our human bodies can propably also produce its own B12 but every now and again we need a pick up..not sure why but a B12 or B Complex injection does help to keep to get the energy flowing again so an injection for the kois cant do anything bad.

I started giving my wife some B Complex injections a year ago as she was always pap. And it does work althoug she says it only seems to help for 2 weeks or so. My wife has some kidney problems which affects her blood count and so forth...

Hi Bobby,

Exactly - as you say it comes down to water quality. We have to become water keepers before we become koi keepers.

I have found over the years that the biological load in heavily stocked ponds is massive. Not only from a bacterial count but the sloughing of the slime, the faeces from the fish and the increased algae growth.

With regards a back-up to the pond that was discussed. A number of years ago a gentlemen who won Grand champion on the first few SAKKS National Koi Shows had a number of show quality, very large koi in a small, deep pond outside his front door. He also had a battery-back for the air stones and not the pump. A pump draws a lot of current and a back-up electrical supply for a pump would cost a fortune.

Any way to make a short story as long as possible - the owner went away for the week end. His neighbour offered to feed the fish daily and she was instructed to call me in the event of any problems.

On the Friday night lightning struck near the house and the earth leakage tripped. The battery back-up kicked in and all was fine for about 6 - 8 hours. Then the battery back-up ran out of juice and as the earth leakage had tripped and the current did not come back on. The following evening when the dear old lady next door arrived to feed the koi they were all dead from suffocation.

The moral of the story - very heavy stocking densities carry an enormous risk.

I am not sure if I have posed a study identifying pheromones koi excrete in crowded conditions responsible for suppressing growth. If not then I will start a new thread with this study.

On the point of Vit B12 injections - its not the B12 its self that I have a problem with - its the catching (stressful), handling (stressful) and the vision of some amateur koi keeper plunging a needle into a poor koi that has been swimming happily around in a pond enjoying life.

Injecting a spouse is one thing - injecting a koi is another ......... now lets try one of these things at the end of this sentence to avoid any misinterpretation .......

Kind regards,
Chris

i agree with the injecting of koi story. Thats why i went for the capsules over the food rather...obviosuly not so effective but a lot less stressful for the koi.

Chris Neaves wrote:

Chris, im so glad you found the smileys. lol We always only saw <grin> or something like that.

Gents I think the important thing here is that Yoti - I think that's his name? is an innovator, and is turning convention on it's head with some unconventional ideas. I think the deep pond = big koi is out of the window. Small pond also = big koi, just takes a lot more work. I also find it strange that everyone is pushing like hell to get growth, but I reckon I can count the number of people that have taken a fish to over 80cm, and I dont mean you got it at 70cm and convinced it to do the additional ten.
I mean got it at 60cm or less and pushed it over 80cm.

I stand corrected but I think that neither Johan or Ernst have done this locally, although Ernst I am sure will do this a numer of times in the next few years. I know in WCape Platinum koi have taken Ogons over 80cm - but in mud dams.

I reckon nationally, Karl Engelbrecht, Brian Lee, Roy Pillay, maybe one or two others - wnyone else know who can join this elite list.??

Hi Quinton
I believe Yotti has just adapted the game plan to suit his pond shortfalls. A very importrant point not mentioned is that he has added pure oxygen to his pond and also a chiller to regulate water temperatures that will assist him feeding in ideal conditions. I am certain he does very regular and very big water changes to maintain water quality. I will bet my botom doller that his collection is from top bloodline only. You will see earlier in this tread most of us has said that pond depth is not as important but in my opinion 1.2 must be the absolute minimum for success.
Onto the growth of 80cm koi I would like to be proved wrong that anyone bought at 70cm or otherwise will grow a Koi above 80 cm without a good bloodline and exceptional water quality.

I have seen Koi at 88cm from Karl but he also has a oxygen generator installed. I am very exited to see his pond in a couple of days time.

QJones wrote:

Gents I think the important thing here is that Yoti - I think that's his name? is an innovator, and is turning convention on it's head with some unconventional ideas. I think the deep pond = big koi is out of the window. Small pond also = big koi, just takes a lot more work. I also find it strange that everyone is pushing like hell to get growth, but I reckon I can count the number of people that have taken a fish to over 80cm, and I dont mean you got it at 70cm and convinced it to do the additional ten.
I mean got it at 60cm or less and pushed it over 80cm.

I stand corrected but I think that neither Johan or Ernst have done this locally, although Ernst I am sure will do this a numer of times in the next few years. I know in WCape Platinum koi have taken Ogons over 80cm - but in mud dams.

I reckon nationally, Karl Engelbrecht, Brian Lee, Roy Pillay, maybe one or two others - wnyone else know who can join this elite list.??

The kohaku that won Reserve grand champ last year at our show was benched over 80cm - Hannes got her for Johan as a nissai. I've got a shiro in my pond which was imported by Harry in 2006 as a tosai from Omosako - I got her from Johan at 72cm and she has gone over 80cm this season. THere are many keeper out there not in the show scene with koi over 80cm which they grew from tosai. Our climate is perfect for growing them big given the right enviroment.

Did any of you pick up on Yotti's feeding plan? Fresh food from the market every day including live silk worm papaue. A lot can be said about feeding.

Then you are in the 80cm club Ernst! Can there even be 20 fish over 80cm in the whole coutry? Maybe the guys should post pics of them with their current sizes and story.

My friend in Dainfern, has about 15 70-80cm+ quite nice koi. His biggest one is over 1m or so yellow ogon.

I would like to try do an experiment with the current, and the b12 supplements, thanks for all the links and information!!

Dave woul be great if you could get us some details on his setup - is he buying them big or growing them big? Some pics would be nice aswell

I would especially like to see the 1m fish, many claim to have 1m fish but when its bowled and measured they always come up short in the 80cms. In fact I don't know a koi over 1m in SA - is this verified and can you send us
a pic

I have a asagi that i purchased as a very small tosai from platinum koi from the 2006 koi show. Its one of my first kois that still live. This kois has endurerd all the changes of my pond from 10K to 30K and has survived my learning curve and koi keeper skills while i was learning about koi. It has spent atleast 6 months of its juvinile years in a qt tank while pond modifications was taking place.

It is currently 68cm, the biggest koi in my pond that i grew myself from tosai. Not a fast grower, some of my 2 year old kois will propoably reach 70cm in the next year. This Asagi is definatly not a show quality fish. I purchased it originally for R30 at something like 18cm.

Ill like to see if i can reach that magic number "80"...it would be so much better if one can do that with a good quality koi.

Quinton, Your avatar - is that what you do with the kois that dont pass your requirements? Sushi?

Have you guys noticed this Cavitation box in the thread? Whats your thoughts on it?

Hi Quinton

I dont know how many there are, but I am sure there are a lot more than 20

The one owner of exclusive koi, Shawn, in pretoria has a chagoi of 1,16 Meter and it weighs 22Kg. and that was some time ago. It is currently living in Kape Town area somewhere.

Costa and Angelo from Sakurra has a couple, I believe they are showing 60 fish this year of wich I am sure a couple will be jumbo's.
My friend in Krugersdorp has 3 over 80 and a couple very close.

No there caertainly is quite a few.

Hi Quinton

Your 80cm challenge seems to have inspired a few hobbyist, me included. I believe my new pond will be able to deliver once settled and I stop playing with it.

I own a Torazo Kohaku Mask purchase at 49cm winning Junior at George and Mature at Cape Town show last year now at a guess at 67-68cm looking at her and comparing with other 70cm Koi in the pond. Not growing very fast but the build indicates she still has plenty of growth potential to come.

I believe in this new pond she will for the fist time be in an environment to grow to her full potential. Time will tell.

All the fish in the video are 80-100cm and are at Hirasawa - the bowl they are using is 1m

Code:

[URL=http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv160/QuintonJphotos/?action=view¤t=Biggirlscutdown.flv][IMG]http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv160/QuintonJphotos/th_Biggirlscutdown.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Hi Quinton
(you must have the bowl size wrong?)

Hell that must be a sight to see. I visited my friend today and saw his 3 together and two of them actualy come when he calls and take food from his hand.
even that is a sight, so can only imagine what this lot looks like, awsome.

Neville did the video play ?

Okay can someone please enlighten me as to why the video plays perfectly when Stumble loads it and not when I do?????

No Quinton I also cannot get it to play

Go to your video in Photobucket and open it.

The following screen will appear:



Click on the the IMG code box and it will automatically copy the code to your clipboard.

Go to the forum, and press Control V to paste it into your post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyj1rs157wA

Here's the original link - the video quality is much better - Enjoy!!