Lets see who can classify these koi.

Doitsu Maruten Yamatonishiki

Yamatonishiki an Metalic doitsu Showa.

I think the first one is a Heisei Nishiki (doitsu version of Yamato Nishiki) and Sanke.

The term Heisei Nishiki refers to only Sanke, and the last pic is a Showa. I would just call it a Doitsu Metallic Showa as Jaco said.

See the discussion of Yamato-Nishiki versus Hisei-Nishiki on Koi Bito - http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/main-forum/4447-heisei-nishiki-yamato-nishiki.html

And there is a long discussion about this on this forum but I can not find it now..

Here are two two fish that 's that I imported from Aoki as Heisei-Nishi's some time ago:

Second fish:
Benikikukuryo

Hoop die spelling is reg

More manne, maar julle is darem slim.

Ek het self nie geweet wat die eerste een was nie en moes gaan oplees. Ek kon nie glo dat daar rerig 'n ko met so moeilike naam kon wees nie. Yamatonishiki klink vers te moeilik.

1 - Doitsu Maruten Yamatonishiki
2 - Beni kikokuryu

I always find it so intresting how these doits variaties can look so diffirent but still classified as the same variaty.

Here is another Benu Kikokuryu compare it to the one above.

Hi Guys

my 5 cents worth especially about the second koi, if at any show i was benching it could have gone two ways and both have valid points firstly
if it was benched as hikari utsurimono I would have agreed as it looks much like a doitsu kin Showa, if it was benched as a kikuruyi i can also agree on that. I would however be more inclined to classify it as kikuruyi basicly because of the head pattern which is more kikuryi as kin showa.
with the koi wayne posted above if someone would have said it is a doitsu kujaku i would also agree.
However the biggest thing in show classification is that both are classified in diffrent groups kin show in hikari Utsurimono, doistu kujaku in Hikari Moyomono but kikuruyi in Kawarimono, basicly because it is not yet a established variety like kin showa or kohaku for that matter

Hi Rene

Its nice to have a local koi judge on koionline that can point us in the right direction every now and again even if its only for a 5c input. Thank you and welcome.

I personally always find doits variaties challenging and tend to rather stear away from them but its especially in the doits group where one can find the biggest group of different looking koi. Many of these doits koi names sound rather nasty.

Thanks Wayne

it is also one of the most difficult ones to get a real good one doitsu that is.
It is in show terms also the most difficult group to win with as it has to be absolutly perfect to stand a change against wagoi koi.
It is far easier for the keeper to finish this type of Koi as to wagoi koi.
That is why on shows you see seldomly a doitsu koi winning

Regards
Rene

wayneb wrote:

I always find it so intresting how these doits variaties can look so diffirent but still classified as the same variaty.

Here is another Benu Kikokuryu compare it to the one above.

I have a Koi that looks very much like this. The dealer named it a Doits Kujaku

Kyk ek worry lankal nie meer oor die name nie want dit is way oor my kop en ek kannie eers die goed uitspreek nie, wat nog onthou

Al wat ek weet is dat hierdie heavy mooi visse is.

Well done on the heisei nishiki - those are often hard to get and always confused with Yamatonoshiki. In terms of Kikikuryu - this is possibly the best I've seen


Heres one for the pros - what makes this fish different from a doits kujaku?

QJones wrote:

Well done on the heisei nishiki - those are often hard to get and always confused with Yamatonoshiki.

Paul and Quinton am i understading this correctly according to koi bito there is no diffirence at all. Heisei is just another word for doitsu?

http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/main-forum/4447-heisei-nishiki-yamato-nishiki.html

hi on Wayne's post you are quite right on that one they just named it diffrently like kumonryu and matsukawabaki. On quinton's question the main diffrence as i understand it and again many" grey" arreas here.
The main diffrence is that kujaku has more a white base and Kikuruyi more grey based.
This is how I see it and may be wrong, however the problem lies is that Kikuruyi is not a stable variety yet and I am going to put my head on a block here to me it is "ghost" koi with hi

Rene

Extract from a post by Dr Jim Phillips, SA Judge:

I wrote a bit about Sanke and Heisei Nishiki in my thesis for my judging examinations. Here is a very short, modified extract:
Known in Japan as Taisho sanshoku or Taisho Sanke the name is often abbreviated to Sanke. Sanshoku means three colours and Taisho is the name of a Japanese era. Each Emperor of Japan begins a new era when he ascends the throne. Each Emperor chooses the name or nengo of his era. The current Emperor Akihito is the 125th Imperial Sovereign of Japan and since his era began in 1989 we have been in the Heisei era. A doitsu, metallic Sanke has been developed in the Heisei era and it has been named Heisei Nishiki. Being more than one colour and metallic, it is benched as Hikarimoyo mono.
Taisho means great righteousness (Yoshihito 1912-1926) and Heisei means achieving peace.
Incedentally, there is a nice article on Hesei Nishiki in the recent ZNA magazine - Nichirin.

Rene wrote:

Kikuruyi is not a stable variety yet and I am going to put my head on a block here to me it is "ghost" koi with hi

Rene

Hi Rene, I agree with you, they all look so different.

Look at for instance at this one that I imported. Kase, the Japanese breeder, classified it as Beni Kikukuryu.



Then I bought this from Servaas that he imported and also Beni Kikukuryu:

Hi Paul

Dis mos Rezanne se bling, bling hierdie. Hoe lyk hy nou? Is hy nog so mooi?

As ek so na die doits varieties kyk lyk baie van hulle vir my "unstable" en meer na ongelukke. Oops ons het nou perongeluk hierdie nuwe varietry ontwikkel...kom ons noem hom bv "Insert empror/president name here"soekikakki.

wayneb wrote:

Hi Paul

Dis mos Rezanne se bling, bling hierdie. Hoe lyk hy nou? Is hy nog so mooi?

Ja dit is Rezanne s'n. Baie mooi en verander heeltyd wat hom interessant maak, maar wil nie groei nie. Nou maar 30cm na twee jaar en al die visse in dieselfde dam groei mooi.

Post 'n nuwer pic, sal graag wil sien.

Wat is 'n doits goshiki? is dit 'n Kikukuryu?

Ek en die doits visse is nie maatjies nie...so ek ken hulle maar sleg.

Sal so maak.

Rene, correct. The one give-away is the pecs - apparently the kujaku should never have black/grey in the pecks, also most kujaku have grey scalation and not the pitch black associated with Matsukawabake etc kimonryu - when this is apprent in doits the kymonru line is black shading and the matsukawabake grey. Of course in the world of koi nothing is ever that easy.

Of course thre is another fish that then starts coming into play - what about the metallic doits Goshiki?

sorry for the slight hijack...but I have this fish in my pond and I am not able to identify it exactly.

Any idea's from you guys seeing you're discussing doits variety's in this particular post

thanks

I think it is a Doitsu Kujaku, but if not, it is a kin Kikokuryu.