----- Original Message -----
From: Bobby Matthee
To: biosecurity@gbr.dupont.com ; keith@koiwaterbarn.com
Cc:
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:17 AM
Subject: Bobby Matthee

To: Antec International a DuPont Company
To: Keith Holmes Koi Water Barn

As a Koi hobbyist I am concerned and would like clarification on the following link and comment from DuPond SA.
I and many more hobbyists own expensive Koi and I personally have invested in 10 of these products from Koi Water Barn. The product is labelled with a picture of Koi fish from the manufacturer Antec International a DuPont Company and I would like to clarify the endorsement policy on the brandanbiosecurity link and the comment from DuPond South Africa

http://www.bradanbiosecurity.com/faqs.html
Because of concerns about possible toxicity and tainting in use in aquatic sector, DuPont the manufacturer does not support or take any responsibility for any usage of any Virkon other than Virkon Aquatic in any aquatic usage context.

Please verify that the following product is safe and supported by the manufacturer to be safe for usage in a Koi pond environment?
Virkon R S aquatic tablets barcode 503157001600

Response from DuPond South Africa
If you want to kill the Koi ! This was done here in the Cape in 2004 already !!
There is no need to discuss further as we have not and will not be registering Virkon Aquatic in South Africa. This is mainly now for use in the Prawn Farming industry to assist reduce pathogen challenges in clean, lined ponds. It is also used in Salmon farming as a BioSecurity product on hard surfaces.

Best regards

Tony Pearson
DAHS Business Leader EMEA
Global Business Leader Technical and Support Services
DuPont Animal Health Solutions
DCSE
Mobile/Berry - +44 (0) 79 905 10162
South Africa mobile - (+27 outside RSA ) 083 297 0564

Response from Dupont ........
Response from Koi Waterbarn

From: Keith - Koi Water Barn [mailto:keith@koiwaterbarn.com]
Sent: 25 September 2008 06:24 PM
To: Bobby Matthee
Subject: Re: Bobby Matthee

hi bobby.
Thanks for the email?

Virkon Aquatic is widley used in the UK as a pond treatment at the rate of 1 tabelt per 1000 gallons, or in powder form at the rate of 2 to 4ppm. We actually use it here when we have a new shipment and never have any problems. I have attached an artcile which I wrote with Prof.roberts on virkon, for your reference.

I hope this helps and clarifies things.
Many Thanks

Keith Holmes
Manager - Koi Water Barn ltd.

The Dupond Cape Town statements was never confirmed or denied, so I was not prepared to use these expensive products again with Koi in a pond.

I've been using Virkon Aquatic for the last two years when adding new koi to my collection. Touch wood up to now everything has gone well and 90% of the time there had been no bacterial issues after introducing new koi. I guess as with any chemical you add to your pond, too much will never be good.

Hi Ernst

Where do you get the Virkon Aquatic version? DuPont do not stock it in SA.

Do you know what the difference is between Virkon and Virkon S.

A lot of people use Virkon S directly in their ponds and I also used it a few times with no problems. Some say the normal Virkon is actually better.

Quote :

Before there was Virkon everybody quite happily used Virkon S as a matter of fact all the tests were done using Virkon S and it was chosen a the disinfectant of choice for rebreathers, but now we have Virkon specially formulated for human use

(http://www.rebreatherworld.com/general-rebreather-diving/898-virkon-vs-virkon-s.html)

I recently received the following Virkon from DuPont after I ordered Virkon S and I am now scared to use it, especially after the reply from DuPont in Bobby's mail above.



I can't find further information on the difference between:

1 Virkon
2 Virkon S
3 Virkon Aquatic

Hi Admin
I got the contact from Ernst and ordered the Virkon Aquatic direct form Koi Water Barn in the UK. Keith Holmes replied to me about an article he wrote and I could not get him or DuPond UK, to accept or deny the SA statement. I will have to revisit my mails but something was removed from Virkon to make it more acceptable for Koi and therefore Virkon Aquatic was marketed in the UK but not available in SA. I find it concerning that the name is changed again and would only used it for sterilization of a QT tank media for eg. Then first a water-change before Koi is added to water. I am no expert on these matters but if I cannot get the manufacturer to back their product for Koi use, it makes me feel very uncomfortable to use the Virkon S Aquatic tablet with Koi in a pond.

Dupond SA should give us more detail re their statement and newly named products. The question should be, do they back the new Virkon to be safe for a Koi pond environment.

There's another thread currently going on this forum regarding tumors on Koi bought from Knysna Koi farm...

I buy from Knysna (Phillip) and he uses Virkon S every time he introduces new Koi to an existing pond at the rate of 3g per 1000L. Is it maybe at all possible that this could be a contributing factor to the tumors, depending on how often they get exposed to the Virkon S??

Somewhere on this forum is a virkon S discussion that predates bobbys discussion. Admin moved the topic and so it has become difficult to read as everything is a copy / paste but in short - way back then when i was looking for viskon S aquatic Dupond told me via email that Virkon S aquatic and Virkon S had the same active ingredients and therefor was the same product, the only diffirence being that the foaming agent and purfume was removed.

They also gave me contact details where one could buy their Virkon S Aquatic in capetown as a no-name brand. Back then they had a diffirent tune, they said that they where waiting for the product to be registered in south africa before officially selling it.

Letter to dupont - 2008/07/28 wrote:

Dear Jolanda and others

Are you guys not planning to sell Virkon S Aquatic in this country?
Virkon S Aquatic is specially formulated for the fish industry and comes in a tablet form.

Virkon S Aquatic is break through product for the fish industry and lots of koi keepers are using it these days. At the moment we have to import it from the UK and as you can imagine it costs us a bundle.

See link to dupont website regarding Virkon S Aquatic - http://www2.dupont.com/DAHS_EMEA/en_GB/ahb/fish/efficacy_data.html

Wayne

I unfortunatly cant find their repley. I only have this comment i made on the forum.

WayneB, Virkon S Wed 4 Jun 2008 wrote:

They told me that they are waiting for Virkon S Aquatics to be registered...so that they can sell it locally. Apparently they have been waiting for 1 year already but there is a lot of red tape and they expect to wait another year.

Differences between Virkon S and Virkons S Aquatics according to Jolanda from Dupont.

Virkon S..................Virkon S Aquatics
Powder........................Tablets
Contains colourant.......Contains no colourants
Contains fragrance.......Contrains no fragrances
..................................Contains anti-foaming agent.

A guy called Wouter from dupont gave me some inside info...Click on the spoiler below to see.

Spoiler:
Virkon S Aquatics are being sold without a label at the momment in Cape town for R 400 / 5 Kg

Chris, one can speculate but no one will never know the true reason. It can be virkon, it can be inbreeding, it can be an complete random accident. Tumors are also very common in koi so its difficult to say.

This is the location of the Virkon S thread