Why do koi lose its red?

Subject: Why do koi lose its red? Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:49 am

I often get the question from hobbyists, why do their koi loose it’s hi(red)?

Some people say that it is all about the quality of the bloodline, genetics and breeder, some people say it is water conditions (sharp fluctuations in ph, water too hard, too soft, high Ammonia or Nitrites etc) and some people say it can be caused by shock, fluctuations in temperature or stress in general. Some say that they experience it more often in autumn. Some people say it lies in the food given or experienced a sudden lost of hi after a change in food. Does the amount of sunshine plays a role as alledged by many?

What is your opinion and experience?

Furthermore, what should you look for when buying koi. What are the indications that a koi might lose it colours and might become a Shiro Muji? Some say that there are always warning signs, for instance indications on the head that red already pulled back (pink on the edge of the pattern). Some say if you can see white between the scales when you bend the fish, it will probably lose it’s hi and obviously, sometimes you can see that all the patterns are starting to become pinkish. Some say that you should ensure that the hi on the whole body is the same colour when buying. Some say that a saw tooth pattern on the kiwa side is a clear indication.

What is your experience and do you have any before and after photos of koi losing its hi and did you ever encounter that the hi comes back?

Posts : 406 Reputation : 8 Join date : 2007-08-01

For Tosai, I will look for the eveness of red on the kiwa and on the whole body.

Most koi keeper like to pick the tosai with deep red color, but the deep red color are caused by feeding colour enchancer.

So, my opinion is look for tosai with even red on the kiwa and on the whole body, rather than looking at how deep is the red.

regards,
sas

Posts : 406 Reputation : 8 Join date : 2007-08-01

This is what i meant:

Why do koi lose its red? 1-2

Subject: Re: Why do koi lose its red? Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:40 am

Very good examples tony although i have to point out that kois can look stretched like in example 2 at the end of summer after having a very fast growth season. The key is too look at the individual scales. If you can see colour diffrences in the individual scales of the koi as well as the "white borders" around the scales then rather do not purchase the koi. You can see the colour diffirences in the individual scales in example 2 above.

I have owned 3 kois in the past that either lost all its red or some to a certain extend. Sanke, Tancho and large Kohaku female at age 4.

The first two lost their colour just because i new nothing and did a bad selection. If i look back at the photos when i bought them i can see the signs.

According to a DVD that i have from Hannes Uys, tanchos has a better chance of loosing its red because red is naturrally predominant in the front region of the koi. So if koi has all its red infront and none at the back it shows that the red is genetically weak but that does not mean that all tanchos will loose its red - Its a bit of a gamble but everyone including myself wants a nice tancho but growing them is a gamble.

The 3rd koi of mine that lost is red was due to me overstressing the fish during spawning. She is from a very good bloosline and her red never showed any sign of fading. She was 4yrs old when this happened. I spawned her for the first time last year and i new nothing about spawning and so i needlessly overstressed her. Her spawning session took 4 hours which was apprently far too long. After spawning her i immediatly placed her in the big pond where she was chased all around the big pond by all the other males that also wanted some action. She started loosing her red about 1 month later. At the momment it looks like she has stopped loosing her red but only time will tell.

I have heard that its common for male kois to loose their red after spawning but so far the two males that i used have not lost any.

So in my experience the following things lead to kois loosing their red.
1. Genetics
2. Stress
3. Spawning

Posts : 406 Reputation : 8 Join date : 2007-08-01

wayneb wrote:: Very good examples tony although i have to point out that kois can look stretched like in example 2 at the end of summer after having a very fast growth season. The key is too look at the individual scales. If you can see colour diffrences in the individual scales of the koi as well as the "white borders" around the scales then rather do not purchase the koi. You can see the colour diffirences in the individual scales in example 2 above.

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for pointing that out. Very Happy

But if you look at those top quality koi in Japan when they are at the end of the summer fast growth season, they will still looks like in example 1. Not example 2.

regards,
sas

Posts : 26 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2007-07-27

Interesting topic.

One of my koi lost it colour after I forgot the hosepipe in my pond overnight. I believe the Chlorine caused the red to fade?

At my previous house I used well point water which caused extremely hard water. That also faded the red on some of my fish.

Apparently very high temperature can also cause the red to disappear.

Subject: Re: Why do koi lose its red? Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:43 am

Interesting topic indeed. Stunning photo posted by Tony to show the difference. I hope that the thread does not cause client's to start bending all the fish before they purchase. lol!

Wayne, do you still have photo's of those three fish that lost it's colour to enable us to see the signs?