I have recently inherited a koi pond with a new house purchase. I have subsequently fallen head over heels for the hobby. My pond is approximatley 12.500 litres. In the centre of the pond is a decorative vase with water sprayer. The base which goes to the bottom of the pond is a metal and is also attached to two of the walls of the pond. The metal is covered by what looks like rust. I am sure that this is poisonous, but not sure what the consequences are. Photo below
So to summarise
1. What are the consequences of rust
2. Is there a chemcial solution for this or would I have to empty the pond and physically remove.

PS there were 6 fish when we bought of which 2 have died. One of the reaining has cloudy eye on one side (fan tail goldfish) and various bumps that look like pimples. The other large Comet looks like he is losing his colour (but I read that this is fairly natural for Goldfish.

Very new at this so any assistance would be greatly appreciated.[img]

Hi

Some info that might be useful

Metal
Symptoms: General illness symptoms, falshing, gasping, reddened gills, erratic swimming. Depending on the metal involved, confusion can set in without other symptoms being obvious.
Cause(s): There are many ways metal can enter the pond. Water from corroded pipes, improper decorations or equipment, nails, screws, coins, and even some medications which contain metallic compounds such as Copper Sulfate.
Generally, fish can handle only the smallest trace amounts of certain metals in the water. Metals bind to gills and other tissues, effectively stopping proper functioning. One or more organs can become affected at a time. Iron seems to affect the primarily the gills, lead the nervous system, and copper can affect the whole body, especially the liver.
To further guard against introducing metals into the tank, make sure that everything you use in and to do with the pond is metal free and in good condition. Plants and rocks from polluted sites may contain metal contaminants. Old equipment may degrade and release metals into the water. For example, cheap nets can develop rust which will be introduced into the water every time you use it
Metals can accumulate in the organs of aquatic life, causing a variety of physiological problems, ultimately leading to disease outbreaks and death. High levels of one or more of these heavy metals cause rapid death of fish and amphibians without obvious symptoms of disease or tissue damage.


Safe Metal Limits:

Copper 0.014mg/l More toxic in soft water
Zinc exacerbates toxicity
Combined both are dangerous
Zinc 0.01mg/l Synergistic with copper
0.15mg/l In hard Water
Cadmium 0.03mg/l
Chromium 0.10mg/l
Lead 0.01mg/l In soft Water
4.00mg/l In hard Water
Silver 0.03mg/l
copper continous: <.006mg/l
fish kill: >0.3.7mg/l in soft water, >.6-6.4mg/l in hard water
iron continous: <.1mg/l
fish kill: >0.5mg/l
magnesium continous: <0.01mg/l
fish kill: >75mg/l
lead continous: <0.02mg/l
fish kill: >1.0-31.5mg/l
Copper is the most poisonous of the bunch.
Although Copper is used in marine fish medicine quite frequently, in fresh water it's a different story. Copper accumulates in the fish's systems and is toxic at most any level in fresh water.
Even the lowest levels of Copper cause toxic changes in the fishes nervous system, gills, liver, kidneys, and the immune system. Fish exposed to copper over an extended period of time become dull, darkened and lethargic. At this initial stage of copper toxicity, gill lesions consist of the blunting of the gill lamella (significantly reducing the hemoglobin/O2 exchange). The gill filaments initially become severely hyperplasic (huge mucus buildups) and evolve to severe capillary congestion (telaglactisis) With continued exposure the fish become indifferent to any form of external stimuli -- the fish is basically suffocating to death.

I painted the inside of my small 3year old pond with ''waterblock''. This product will work to prevent the rust entering the water and the paint is non toxic to fish

Thanks for that input Marius.

I will also be worried about the different chemical reactions due to the iron in the pond when using medicine, for instance Potassium Permanganate.

Bottomline, no iron in a pond, rusted or not, unless you seal it properly with a very good waterproof sealant.

Just to add what Paul said.

I don’t say Potassium Permanganate is bad for treating fish but beginners like me should be warned about a few facts…..

Potassium permanganate, obtainable at pool supply stores, is used in rural areas to remove iron and hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell) from well and waste water. (What will the reaction be in a pond containing rusted metal???)

So why isn't potassium permanganate a godsend? Because using it is a little like using chlorine! Like chlorine, potassium permanganate is utterly unselective in its action. Oxidizers react with any organic: bacteria, protists, algae, DOC and particulate detritus-- but also the delicate epidermis covering fish gills. And the toxic level of KMnO4 is only slightly higher than its therapeutic level of 2ppm. For one thing, it will decimate the desirable nitrifying bacteria in your filter as fast as it acts on unwanted bacteria elsewhere. And some plants are extra sensitive to KMnO4: after a dose of potassium permanganate, Vallisneria can melt away as if it were Cryptocoryne

If you want to quickly deactivate KMnO4, you can do it with hydrogen peroxide, which is another caustic oxidizer with antibacterial properties. The H2O2 should be at a concentration of 1ml/15 liters: it will work in a few minutes. You should be aware that KMnO4 inactivates formalin and malachite green; the potassium permanganate will act as an antidote if they are all used together.

If you've unsuccessfully used salt in a fish pond to remove parasites and you then go and add potassium permanganate to the pond then it is quite possible that chlorine will be liberated in your pond. Salt and potassium permanganate can then react together under certain circumstances to produce chlorine. Why take the risk?

Salt when used in conjunction with zeolite can also release ammonia back into the pond water.

The importance is to alert you to dangers of adding anything to pond water. Sure at times it is necessary and important but any pond addition must be done with greatest circumspection, and a full knowledge of benefits and potential dangers. It goes without saying that the pond volume must be known with accuracy in order to get dosage rates worked out well.

The following is a well accepted fact ... A biofilter properly sized, installed and maintained prevents more than 90% of all pond problems

THanks for the repsonses. I will work on getting it removed. Just one more ?. Do I need to do a 100% water change once removed. My plan was to remove enough water to get into the pond (around 5000l) and basically cut out the base and seal whats left.

If you do a 100 % water change, you will loose the maturity of your pond and you put your fish under a lot of stress. I would do a 50% change, remove the iron, and another 30% in a weeks time.

Maybe Paul can comment on adding salt (about 37kg or 3%) to your pond after maintenance. This will help to prevent an outbreak of disease since you have disturbed the fish and environment and immunity will be low. You can lower the amount of salt every week with your partial water change by not adding salt to the new water

I agree, under normal circumstances I do not use salt. However, every time when there fish undergo stress, I add 3 kg/1000 liters. It creates a mucus layer to protect them from parasites and bad bacteria and limit the negative affect of high Nitrites that can be expected due to a loss of good bacteria after a large water change, apart from various other advantages mentioned under the discussions of salt on this forum.

It is also very important to test your water for a while for Ammonia and Nitrites after a large water change.

Hi,

You can use salt and potassium permanganate together!
Never treat muddy water with “pp” as this can promote the toxic Manganese dioxide on the gill filaments.
It can be used in an emergency to release available oxygen to Koi if there is a shortage of oxygen.
Potassium permanganate is very toxic to fry!
A complete water change should be effected after using in the pond. Particular attention must be given to cleaning the bottom of the pond.

Never use salt together with formalin or zeolite, or never use a galvanized bath/ bucket to “mix” potassium permanganate. A chemical reaction will release zinc into the water.

Hi julle, ek het 'n pobleem waarmee ek nou al lankal sukkel. Ek gebruik hierdie sainless steel filter "copy van 'n eazy" as my meganiese filter. Die probleem wat ek het is dat die ding roes. Ek is ook nie enigste persoon in die kaap omgewing wiesin roes...Die ander wat ook gekoop het is baie gelukkig met hulle sin.

Ek het my eerste "eazy" ingesit in Feb 2008. In December 2008 moes ek hom vervang want hy was gaar geroes. Hier is photos van merkies op die nuwe eazy wat ek gekry het as replacement in desember 2008.





Dis nou 5 maande later en die "nuwe eazy" is besig om uit mekaar teroes. Hier is photos.





Die vervaardige van die "eazy" claim dat ek elektrisiteit in my water het. En dat dit die stainless steel laat "pit" soos hy se. Op die onderste photo kan jy klein merkies sien, dit lyk soos vullis maar is eintlik baie klein gaatjies reg deur die metaal.



Is daar 'n manier om tesien \ check of daar krag in my water is? Ek swem gereeld in my koi dam en het nog nooit iets gevoel nie. Die visse doen almal reedelik goed, so ek weet nie.

Ek het selfs gewonder of medikasie verandwoorlik kan wees hiervoor? Die enigste medikasie wat ek gebruik het gedurende die jaar was Potassium en M & F.

Help asseblief.

See http://www.ssina.com/faq/index.html

"Stainless does not "rust" as you think of regular steel rusting with a red oxide on the surface that flakes off. If you see red rust it is probably due to some iron particles that have contaminated the surface of the stainless steel and it is these iron particles that are rusting. Look at the source of the rusting and see if you can remove it from the surface. If the iron is embedded in the surface, you can try a solution of 10% nitric and 2% hydrofluoric acid at room temperature or slightly heated. Wash area well with lots and lots of water after use. Commercially available "pickling paste" can also be used."

Hi Paul, so you are saying that there is a source of Iron in my pond water and that this iron is attached somehow to the stainless steel and its rusting.

That sounds like it can be possible.

But how does that explain the holes in the eazy? My previouse eazy really fell apart and if you look at image 5 you can actually see that the brackets are rusted off.

Wayne

I think that the product is not entirely stainless steel, because in your case the rust is severe. Technically, as far as I know, stainless Steel can not rust. I have been using stainless steel on my boats for years which is exposed to sea water on a regular basis, eg bolts to attach my engines, and it is still "stainless" You bought your eazy fairly recently.

I don't think electricity can cause that and you would have known about another source of iron, except if there is a lot of iron in your water(for instance borehole water)

Do you have a skimmer box? Most skimmer's use stainless steel screws to attach the rim to the skimmer. If so, see if they are affected.

Sorry paul, fibreglass skimmer on this side. and no bore-hole water either.

The eazy did come with a lid, which i did not use...its made of thicker stainless steel than the rest of the unit, i left it outside in the wind and rain but it does not have a scrath on it.

Im starting to think that i dont feed my bacteria enough.