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 Weskaap Skou Datum 2010

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Ernst



Posts: 58
Join date: 2009-04-11
Age: 36
Location: Paarl

PostSubject: Re: Weskaap Skou Datum 2010   Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:29 pm

I posted our question to Peter Waddington and received this response:

'Nishikigoi (brocaded carp) were first produced by mountain folk in the 'Nijimura' (twenty villages) area of Niigata, Japan. The name was changed in the early part of the last Century to Yamakoshimura and around six years ago that name no longer exists officially and has been divided into either Nagaoka or Ojiya depending on the boundaries. The villagers then worked for wealthy landlords and most of their year was spent in farming rice and vegetables on ricefields terraced down the mountainsides. These were irrigated by reservoirs at the top of the mountains. Wild black carp (koi or magoi) were introduced from China (between the late 1700's to mid 1800's) and fry were produced in spring and then grown in these reservoirs until autumn when they were harvested, salted and stored for food over the long winters. The parents could not tolerate winter temperatures and had to be brought into earth ponds in the house floors by the rice farmers who also now were carp farmers producing another source of food. Any small carp harvested for food that showed odd coloured scales in autumn were kept by the farmers as pets. (It is said that these oddities showed from a mixture of different strains of parent carp after they had been 'mixed' in breeding - the main 'strains' were tetsu magoi & asagi magoi) In later years some pets were bred with other pets from different owners that also showed some colour pigmentation and so the 'hobby'was formed. It was years later that this blossomed into a tiny cottage industry.

Whilst it would be nice to really believe that Nishikigoi have been in Japan for Centuries or that 'Hanako' died at 276 years of age, these are only myths - but nice ones. However, I would ask you to consider some facts:-

Mains water supplies did not come to Yamakoshi until 1910.

Electricity followed in the mid 1920's.(No water pumps or air pumps before)

'Wattle and daub' (mud) was used for house building in the area up to the late 1930's when some concrete could be transported there at great cost.(No concrete fish ponds before)

Before these times it was almost impossible to keep more than a few small fish alive over winter in this area.(7 metres of snow and ice)

Amano's excellent book states clearly that any 'Koi' remaining in this area during WW2 were eaten by the villagers who had no food after the menfolk had left to fight.

It is also 'hinted' that all Koi for sale today were developed from parents produced after WW2. Today it is the importance of 'the breeder' rather than early 'bloodlines'.

Senichi Mano of Izumiya says his father started the first Nishikigoi dealer outlet in 1947 - just after WW2 whilst Tsuyoshi Kawakami (Torazo) says his grandfather started the first outlet in 1917 - whatever the truth - this is NOT Centuries as someone has posted.

Then consider this very important fact - vinyl bags were not produced until the early 1960's so only wealthy folks living near Yamakoshi could have Koi transported to them in wooden bowls. It was only after this invention and the addition of liquid oxygen that allowed Koi to be transported safely, not just to the domestic market, but all over the world and that is only 46 years ago! The boom year when Koi hit all of Japan was around 1972.

If the truth is known, less than 0.025% of the Japanese population had either seen or heard of Nishikigoi or Moyoogoi or Irogoi (all early names) before the late 1950's. Nishikigoi is NOT a Japanese tradition for 'Centuries' - sorry.

Back to the original black carp, these were only indigenous to the area around the Caspian Sea hence the latin name 'Cyprinus Carpio'. They are temperate-water species and NOT coldwater species. All Koi in Yamakoshi are kept for nine months a year in indoor, heated concrete, and filtered recirculating systems. They are only placed in field ponds during summer for 'The Golden Ninety Days' which it is often referred to. When the Koi are placed into field ponds, the indoor systems are emptied and scrubbed clean, the filter media is removed, cleaned and left to dry over summer and the filter chambers are also scrubbed clean. It is only in late September when the systems are filled with mains water before pumps are started and aeration is added in preparation for the harvests. In short, the systems are brand new every September and the breeders have no experience in actually 'keeping' Koi for longer than nine months!

On the other hand, we in the western world have to keep our ponds running for year after year after year which is a huge difference and far too complex to go into in a posting such as this. However, by necessity, 'the best-designed, high-end systems' I have seen in recent years around the world are better than the Japanese breeder's indoor systems by far.

Regarding the best possible time of the year in South Africa to transport Koi and stage Koi shows for the welfare of the Koi and when the skin and pigmentation is best is in the coolest water periods. Hence why the All-Japan is staged in Japan in late January. In the UK, Koi shows should also be staged at this time but this conflicts with revenue that can be produced in summer by sales of ice cream, cold drinks, fish & chips, bouncy castles, burgers, craft fairs - yada, yada, yada!

Finally, who stole my picture of the Shiro Utsuri seen on this board?

Peter Waddington (Waddy)
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Bobby



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PostSubject: Re: Weskaap Skou Datum 2010   Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:08 pm

HI...Paul. Jaco, Collin

Those of you that know me are all aware of my very limited experience in Koi keeping and as you are all involved in Koi breeding and sales I am unqualified to comment and judge comments made on Koi health issues.

The purpose of this debate is to assist the WCSC to establish a date that will be beneficial to the Koi Dealers, Koi Breeders, Koi Keepers and Visitors.

From the judges logistics point of view the months March and April is not available. We will definitely have to consider the Visitors as they will effect Koi sales and show income.

So to consider all the issues tabled and share your preferred month for the Western Cape 2010 Show, drawing on your years of experience as Koi Breeders and Dealers will be appreciated.


More rainfall stats/ Link
http://www.wordtravels.com/Cities/South+Africa/Cape+Town/Climate

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Collin



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PostSubject: Re: Weskaap Skou Datum 2010   Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:42 pm

Hi Bobby

I still say, see what month is the colds and the driest in the Western Cape and if it is April or March then that should not be a problem for judges due to the fact that if there is not enough judges then SAKKS should train more judges. They did not have a judges training course in over two years.

It is the responsibility of SAKKS to make sure that there are sufficient judges for all the shows! Maybe they should try and get back all the good judges that had left SAKKS over the years. I know of at least 5 judges that had already been trained but don’t judge any more due to the internal politics of SAKKS. Maybe you should ask Kevin Till to approach these judges to see if SAKKS can not get them onboard again.

My only experience regarding koi shows in the WC are as follows:

May 2006 Rain
May 2007 Rain
August 2008 Rain
May 2009 Mostly Dry

So as you can see I am a Koi Breeder in Pretoria and not a weather man in the WC. lol!

If I look at the site you posted I would say March or October looking at avg temp and rain fall. But October will be out for most breeders and dealers as most of them are Japan or busy breeding.

A word of advice the primary concern regarding any show is the wellbeing of the koi, all the rest comes second, you can only make some people happy some of the time, you cant make all the people happy all of the time.
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Bobby



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PostSubject: Re: Weskaap Skou Datum 2010   Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:18 pm

Colllin wrote:
A word of advice the primary concern regarding any show is the wellbeing of the koi, all the rest comes second, you can only make some people happy some of the time, you cant make all the people happy all of the time.

Very true. Thanks for sharing Collin
The WCKC appreciate Orient Koi attending the 2009 Show in the Cape, hope to see you and Lee Ann again next year.

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Weskaap Skou Datum 2010

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