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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Sat May 09, 2009 4:03 pm | |
| Fish seems to be happy. Not show fish but it's my babies and I love them all. Hopefully they won't be sick tomorrow. The video quality might not justify it all, but I can a sure you the water is clear and the colours brilliant |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Sat May 09, 2009 5:05 pm | |
| How do you convince to your girlfriend to cull, kill or murder your fish, koi or family member that tries it best to survive?????? |
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2330 Reputation : 46 Join date : 2007-07-25 Age : 61 Location : Cape Town
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Sun May 10, 2009 8:41 am | |
| Ek stem saam dat die veiligste is om te behandel. Prevention is better than cure. Die voorgeskrewwe dosis vir PP is 2,56g / 1000 liter. Indien jy egter doitsu visse behandel, moet 20% minder toegedien word. Indien die water bruin raak binne 30 minute met jou eerste behandeling, moet jy 50% van die dosis byvoeg want dan het jy baie organiese materiaal in jou pond. Doen 'n 20% waterverandering na elke behandeling. Moet nooit begin met 'n lae dosis nie. Die korrekte dosis is baie belangrik met PP, veral met die tweede, derde en vierdie behandeling. Doen ten minste vier behandelings twee dae uitmekaar. Indien jy baie organiese materiaal in jou pond het of baie plante, gaan PP nie veel uitrig nie. Ek volg 'n reeks PP behandelings op met sout @ 2 kg/1000 l of 4kg/1000 liter na die finale waterverandering in ernstige gevalle. Jy moet jou Ammonia en Nitriete fyn dophou na 'n reeks behandeling met PP want jou Nitrosomonas en Nitrobacter gaan aansienlik minder wees en jy kan spikes verwag. Baie min kos na die behandeling en geen kos tydens behandeling. Plaas 'n net oor as jy kan want hulle is geneig om te spring. Verhoog jou suurstof aangesien die PP suurstof uit die water haal. Hydrogen Peroxide hoef slegs gebruik te word indien die water pienk bly na 6 ure. |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Wed May 13, 2009 10:19 pm | |
| Ek dink Jaco was reg toe hy gese het dat as vis in oggend reg is en dood is in middag dat dit nie bakterie is nie. Ek het met Louise baklei omdat sy nie medikasie gegee het nie, maar visse is na week nogsteeds reg en eet baie goed in middag as water warm is. Sy glo nie daaraan om onnodig te krap aan wat nie juk nie. Dalk is ek verkeerd. Neem asb in ag dat ek min by huis is en dat ek vertrou op ander om my visse gelukkig te hou so ek het nie altyd die keuse om te doen wat volgens ander reg is nie. Sal so in 2weke by huis wees en opvolg gee. |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:13 am | |
| I think I found something that might have caused my Koi to go mad. The bridge made out of lip channel was not painted properly and some rust ended up in settlement chamber. At the same time I had a nitrite spike, so maybe a combination of all bad things drove him crazy, not sure Fish still alive and hang around the bottom. The moment it comes up to feed you see the weird swimming pattern I posted earlier |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:03 am | |
| Some close up pictures of the Koi with the funny swimming pattern Sorry for all my silly questions, but: Is the slime normal? The scales looks a bit ‘loose’ to me and they seems to ‘move’ as fish turns The orange becomes more ‘white’ in certain areas since a few months ago I have 0.13% salt in pond. NO2 = 0 ; NO3=10mg/L ; GH = >10 ; KH=6 ; pH=8.2 Is it maybe time to cull the fish? Had Baytril injections sometime ago but still no improvement. Spend most of the time at bottom of pond and when it comes up to eat you notice the funny swimming pattern. I am totally lost about what is going on. The only thing I can explain is the time noted on the pictures – Camera still set to Tanzania – 1 Hour ahead Hope pictures might give an insight to someone. Regards |
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wayneb Admin
Posts : 1681 Reputation : 29 Join date : 2007-12-08 Age : 45 Location : Kraai Fontein, Cape Town Metropol
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:29 am | |
| To much slime is an indication of something irritating the skin of the fish. Check your water params for heavy metals from the rust that could be responsible....but i actually dont know.
I am not a big fan of doitsu kois as i think they are inferior. I have had a couple in the past and not one was free of problems.
I know im going a bit off the issue but want to explain why i say they are inferior. Doitsu fish have less vertabra than normal wagoi so they tend to be shorter and cant grow big.
The less vertabra also means that they have a funny (wagy) type of swim pattern.
Their colours are stunning for koi show purpouses but to keep the good body shape is difficult as they genetically grow fat.
If they develop a sore it leaves a mark on the skin and they dont have scales to hide it under.
Doitsu fish have less red and white blood cells - genetically. So it means that they take longer to heal and have a lower blood/oxygen mix and have thus a inferior immune system.
Doitsu fish also have less gill filliments than wagois. So their oxygen absorbtion is much more limited that wagois.
The lack of scales to protect them also make them much more vulnerable to water conditions, tempreture changes and medications.
Last edited by wayneb on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:43 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:33 am | |
| Marius, sal graag wil sien wat die slim manne nou gaan se! Daar is 'n gesegde " As jy nie wil luister nie, moet jy voel" Jy moes jou dam behandel het met PP! Maar so leer ons almal.................. Sterkte, |
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2330 Reputation : 46 Join date : 2007-07-25 Age : 61 Location : Cape Town
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:09 pm | |
| Hi Marius Die los skubbe moet jou nie te veel pla nie. Dit is nie so ongewoon by 'n Doitsu nie. Die slym kan 'n aanduiding wees van 'n parasiet wat die vel irriteer wat op sy beurt veroorsaak dat die vis ekstra slym afgee soos wat Wayne aangedui het. Miskien moet jy 'n skraping neem en kyk. As ek enige iets bespeur waarvan ek nie hou nie, trek ek my mikroskoop nader. |
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2330 Reputation : 46 Join date : 2007-07-25 Age : 61 Location : Cape Town
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:19 pm | |
| - wayneb wrote:
- To much slime is an indication of something irritating the skin of the fish. Check your water params for heavy metals from the rust that could be responsible....but i actually dont know.
I am not a big fan of doitsu kois as i think they are inferior. I have had a couple in the past and not one was free of problems.
I know im going a bit off the issue but want to explain why i say they are inferior. Doitsu fish have less vertabra than normal wagoi so they tend to be shorter and cant grow big.
The less vertabra also means that they have a funny (wagy) type of swim pattern.
Their colours are stunning for koi show purpouses but to keep the good body shape is difficult as they genetically grow fat.
If they develop a sore it leaves a mark on the skin and they dont have scales to hide it under.
Doitsu fish have less red and white blood cells - genetically. So it means that they take longer to heal and have a lower blood/oxygen mix and have thus a inferior immune system.
Doitsu fish also have less gill filliments than wagois. So their oxygen absorbtion is much more limited that wagois.
The lack of scales to protect them also make them much more vulnerable to water conditions, tempreture changes and medications. Ek moet se, nog nie die swempatroon van doitsu visse gesien waarna jy verwys nie, en ek het nog nie regtig gevind dat hul immuniteit veel laer is as sy Wagoi weergawe nie, alhoewel die skubbe die Wagoi tog beskerm. Hulle bly darem maar mooi, alhoewel die Wagoi groter aanhang het onder die koi kitchi's wat skou. Daarteenoor sal die meeste gemiddelde koi entoesias 'n doitsu of twee in hul pond he, en selfs ernstige koi kitchi. Kyk maar na Ernst se Shusui wat by die skou gewen het, en 'n paar Kumonryus by die skou wat pragtig was. 'n Doitsu het nie 'n duk sel kleurplaat nodig om mooi te wees nie. Kyk byvoorbeeld na die Sanke by die laaste skou. Dit hang af waarom jy koi aanhou. Vir die mooi of om te wen by 'n skou. Ek persoonlik hou van 'n variasie. Maar ja, dit is 'n ander onderwerp wat bespreek kan word onder 'n ander kategorie.
Last edited by Admin on Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:31 pm | |
| Dankie vir almal se advies, so leer ek elke dag bietjie meer en dit is nou makliker vandat ek self by die huis is en nie na selfoon fotos hoef te kyk nie. Het ook vir my mengsel van Koi kos, garlic, klei ens gemaak. Dankie Pieter.Die mal vis eet dan makliker as ek dit voor hom in dam gooi. Na so 2 of 3 happies skrik hy wakker en swem na die oppervlak om daar te eet maar die rock en roll vissie hap dan kos mis.
Sal beslis vandag plan moet maak om skimmer te verander dat kos nie invloei gedurende maaltye nie. Daar was baie kos in pre-filter gedeelte v d settlement chamber en die kos het al baarde begin groei. Glad nie baie gesond nie |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:40 pm | |
| Marius, met verwysing na die slym (Mucus) op die vis. Lees bietjie hier: - Quote :
- The parasite Chilodonella is a major threat to fish health and finding even one parasite warrants immediate treatment. Chilodonella is a potentially dangerous parasite for two reasons. First, unlike many parasites, it has a wide range of temperature tolerance and outbreaks often occur at low temperatures when fish are least able to resist. Secondly, despite is relative small size it, is potentially more dangerous than Ich, because in the initial stages there are no readily visible signs of its presence.
Often by the time it becomes obvious that something is wrong there may already be severe tissue damage. As with other parasites there is also the risk of secondary infections resulting from lesions caused by the parasite's feeding activity.
Identification
The clinical signs are the same as all other parasite infestations. Heavy and laboured 'breathing' (judged by watching operculum movements), flashing and rubbing, skin cloudiness caused by EXCESS MUCUS, loss of appetite and lethargy. At a later advanced stage (which may be too late for treatment) fish often isolate themselves, sometimes near the water surface or water return. They can also exhibit extreme lethargy with long spells laying on the bottom with clamped fins.
It can be easily recognized in skin scrapes and gill biopsies from its characteristic slow gliding movements, often turning in circles.
It has a flattened shape, heart-shaped with a notched end. There are bands of cilia on the ventral (bottom) surface, just faintly visible in the photomicrograph. They measure around 30 - 80 µm in length x 20 -60 µm width. - slightly smaller than skin-dwelling Trichodina.
Treatments
Chilodonella is usually easy to treat with any proprietary parasite treatment, malachite and formalin, POTASSIUM PERMANGANATE or salt baths. One treatment is usually sufficient
Wat gese was oor die Doistu Koi in algemeen, laat my lag! Ek stem saam met Paul dat dit 'n baie interesante onderwerp sal wees. |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:54 pm | |
| Dankie Pieter
Nog iets nuuts by geleer met jou laaste post. Net nog een vraag: Ek het my Tancho wat so paar weke gelede gevrek het, gevries. Sal daar nog enige nut wees om dit te ondersoek - wil dit saam neem as ek vir Jaco gaan kuier? |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:45 pm | |
| Marius,
as daar enige virus of parasiete teenwoordig was sal jy nou niks op die vis kry nie. Inwendige infeksie en beskadigde ingewande sal jy kan sien as die vis oop gemaak word. Om dit deur 'n veearts te laat ondersoek gaan geld kos, miskien moet jy dit net weggooi. |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:45 am | |
| Die slim manne gaan verseker met my raas omdat ek nie ore gehad het om nie PP in dam te voeg nie omdat ek bang was vir die paar goudvisse wat dalk kan vrek asook die verminderde PP vir Doitsu en die effek op my filter wat moelik is om te ‘bypass’ (4000L) Wel, met my seer vingers en in die koue het ek soos Eskimo rond gehardloop en visse gevang. Die volgende het ek tot my skok ontdek en soek weereens hulp asb: |
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wayneb Admin
Posts : 1681 Reputation : 29 Join date : 2007-12-08 Age : 45 Location : Kraai Fontein, Cape Town Metropol
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:57 am | |
| Staan daai vis se skubbe op?...Pinecone disease / Dropsy? Ek mag verkeerd sien....hopelik. As dit so is het jy probleme.
Ek weet die manne se PP maak goudvisse dood maar ek PP my dam met hulle in - nog nooit probleme met hulle gehad nie. Die goudvis wat ek het is al 5 jaar oud.
Last edited by wayneb on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2330 Reputation : 46 Join date : 2007-07-25 Age : 61 Location : Cape Town
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:06 am | |
| Die gat lyk presies soos 'n paar van my visse wat onlangs deur 'n heron (deur die net) bygekom is. Miskien Kingfisher? Die lig van skubbe en uitpeul oe lyk soos dropsy. Ek sou die vis cull, dit lyk nie goed nie, hy kan net probleme veroorsaak onder jou ander vis. |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:14 pm | |
| Ek stem saam dat gat in kop soos iets lyk wat vis beskadig het. Die vine staan darem nie op nie en hoop hierdie fotos is meer duidelik ( gelukkig het my blou handdoek nie net vuur geblus nie haha) Dit lyk soos ‘n groot uitgroeisel en is bloederig onder die vel. Die vis is so +-15cm lank Het dit nie weer terug geplaas in dam nie |
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2330 Reputation : 46 Join date : 2007-07-25 Age : 61 Location : Cape Town
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:57 pm | |
| Op die eerste foto lyk dit soos dropsy, maar nie op die ander nie.
Die uitgroeisel is waarskynlik 'n tipe tumor. Is nie so ongewoon onder goudvisse. Ek neem aan dit is 'n goudvis want ek sien nie "barbels" nie en die vis het die liggaam van 'n goudvis? |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:05 pm | |
| Marius,
lyl my die &%#@* wil jou nie los nie!
Ek het gevind dat as Goudvisse oud word kry hulle "vraatjies" of uitgroeisels. Dit pla hulle blykbaar nie en so 'n vis kan nog lank lewe, en sover ek weet is dit nie aansteeklik nie.
As enige vis Koi of Goudvis "dropsy" kry is dit beter om dit uit te sit, behandeling werk nooit 100% vir dropsy nie. |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:12 pm | |
| Dankie Paul
My doel was om van al die ongewensde visse wat ek al +-3jaar in klein dam gehad het ontslae te raak. Paar visse groei nie goed nie en is lelik maar ek sal eers my probleem moet oorbrug voordat ek dit weggee. Hierdie goudvis is een van hulle want hy jaag in elk geval net die ander rond in dam en ek wil ook net Koi aanhou.
Sal dit beter wees om hom eerder in aparte dam te hou, weg van die ander visse af? Enige iets wat ek kan gebruik om wond op kop te behandel? |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:59 pm | |
| Dankie Pieter Skuus, ek sien nou eers jou post want het myne dieselfde tyd geplaas as joune. Ek sal hom maar paar dae eenkant hou en gat in kop met HP skoonmaak. Ja-nee nie my luck die laaste paar dae nie. As die vleis nie so taai was in Tanzania nie was ek al weg Dalk is uitgroeisel al lank daar (gat in kop lyk 'vars') maar Louise het dit nie raakgesien nie want sy kom na 6 by huis en ry vroeg werk toe |
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Jaco
Posts : 700 Reputation : 5 Join date : 2008-02-16 Age : 57 Location : Odendaalsrus Freestate
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:52 pm | |
| Ek het van die begin af vermoed 'n voel kuier daar. |
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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:28 pm | |
| I have placed the goldfish back into pond. The hole-in-the-Kimberley head looks more healthier. Made a mistake by picking up the fish (out of cool box) and dropped it halfway to the pond. Bit distressed for a while but happy now. Luckily it did not end up in pump like the one when I used external pump to drain pond to fix crack a few months ago.
Cleaned wound with HP and added salt to box at rating of 0.45% |
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wayneb Admin
Posts : 1681 Reputation : 29 Join date : 2007-12-08 Age : 45 Location : Kraai Fontein, Cape Town Metropol
| Subject: Re: Sick Fish Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:41 am | |
| - Quote :
- Cleaned wound with HP and added salt
Is that HP Sauce... like in from the UK? I prefer All Gold Tomoto sauce and mayo with salt and vinigar on my fish.
Last edited by wayneb on Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:52 am; edited 3 times in total |
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