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Marius Bezuidenhout
Posts : 836 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-01-29 Age : 57 Location : Bloemfontein but mostly somewhere else
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:14 am | |
| I was advised by several people to keep my flow rates for both bio media and UV’s within specs.
Info from Ultra Zap:
‘’8Watt UV for pond capacity up to 6000L and max flow rate of 2400L per hour’’
25Liter Ultra Zap filter:
‘’25L of bio Balls will be adequate for a pond volume of 12 000L and a flow rate of 100 – 150L per minute’’(6000 -9000L/h)
What will the effect be if you run 15000 - 20000 L/h of water through the UV and Bio Balls?? |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:33 am | |
| Wayne,
I could not have put it better!
If your filter system is good enough, there is no need for an UV-light!
Please read this by Chris Neaves;
http://www.koi4u.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32:filtration-facts-and-fiction-you-must-know-slime-city&catid=6:chris-on-koi&Itemid=33
http://www.koi4u.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=27:flow-rates-let-the-river-run&catid=6:chris-on-koi&Itemid=33
http://www.koi4u.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23:use-and-abuse-of-high-rate-sand-filters-for-the-21st-century-koi-keeper&catid=6:chris-on-koi&Itemid=33 |
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cam0
Posts : 200 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-03-06
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:54 pm | |
| To replace the settlement chamber I could use a vortex.
I just want to find out who sells vortexes and do they come in different sizes etc? |
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wayneb Admin
Posts : 1681 Reputation : 29 Join date : 2007-12-08 Age : 45 Location : Kraai Fontein, Cape Town Metropol
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:05 pm | |
| camO where do you live then i can point you in the right direction or vortex supplier. |
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cam0
Posts : 200 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-03-06
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:29 am | |
| PTA/JHB. I'll also need to get a pool pump and sand filter.. So whoever has the best prices |
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Chris Neaves
Posts : 449 Reputation : 14 Join date : 2008-04-02
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:12 am | |
| Some quickies - Bottom drain has to be much larger than 50mm as indicated in your diagram. The settlement camber will suck dry if your bottom drain feed is not big enough.
The two settlement chambers could be made in to one large one. The larger chamber surface area will slow the water down.
What you do on the inside is very important. 1) The floor must be sloped so you can drain the settlement area. 2) There must be a drain on each chamber (as you have indicated). 3) What ever you use in the mechanical filter section must not allow the water to go under, over or past it. Try to get all the water to move through your brushes etc.
On the mechanical filter side you could bring the inlet in at an angle and get the water to spin. Even in a square chamber. Place the brushes around the outside of the chamber. You will collect a lot of solids in this way.
If you have a good trickle tower you do not need the other biological filter. Trickle towers are the most efficient bio converters you can get. Rather spend that money on something else. As a media in the trickle filter there are many options. From lava rock to plastic (of any shape) to brick chips - anything. Also the trickle filter can act as a water fall at the same time giving your pond a good deal of oxygen.
In the single sand filter you could use zeolite chips. They are lighter than gravel and back-wash easier. If you use a large sand filter then decrease the amount of gravel by one bag. This will lighten the weight and again make the back-washing easier.
Be wary of the piping size. Its similar to arteries in our bodies. You do not want to clog up the system. Regards, Chris |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:50 am | |
| Hi cam0, - Quote :
- PTA/JHB. I'll also need to get a pool pump and sand filter..
Contact Bruce at : loolilocks@absamail.co.za |
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cam0
Posts : 200 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-03-06
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:25 am | |
| Hi,
What is your opinion on Spec Pumps and filters?
http://www.speck-pumps.co.za/badu-koi_p75.htm
http://www.speck-pumps.co.za/badu-magic_p70.htm
They quoted:
Koi 2 Filter R1939.49 excluding vat
magic 8 pump 0.45kw R2004.19 excluding vat
Thanks, Cameron |
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wayneb Admin
Posts : 1681 Reputation : 29 Join date : 2007-12-08 Age : 45 Location : Kraai Fontein, Cape Town Metropol
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:39 am | |
| Hi Camo rather go for the porpoise series. The magics are more expensiive and have a lower turn over rate than a 0.45 in the porpoise series.
If you add a settlement chamber with a prefilter of some sorts you can use a normal swimming pool sand filter (try to get one with a koi type lid) that you can buy from Builderwarehouse for R 999.00 but if you dont have a prefilter you will have to buy a koi sand filter.
Wayne |
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cam0
Posts : 200 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-03-06
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:50 am | |
| What is the difference between a koi sand filter and a pool sand filter? |
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wayneb Admin
Posts : 1681 Reputation : 29 Join date : 2007-12-08 Age : 45 Location : Kraai Fontein, Cape Town Metropol
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:03 am | |
| Inside the sand filter there are arms/legs/fingers what ever you want to call them.. They have small groves in them. In a swimming pool sand filter the grooves are very small about 1mm. in a koi pond sand filter the grooves are bigger about 3-4mm. How does a sand filter work? Water enters at the top above the sand/gravel and gets forced down through the sand/gravel. The solids get trapped in the top layer of sand/gravel and clean water gets forced into the arms/legs/fingers through the small holes and out. The holes are bigger in a koi sand filter so that the sand filter does not clog up to quickly. A swimming pool sand filter after a pre filter is called a polisher. Heres an example of my mechanical filtration: - Water goes through the empty fortex then through the eazy filter and then through my sand filter. Here is my sand filter. |
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cam0
Posts : 200 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-03-06
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:57 am | |
| Hi, Right. After much deliberation, I have decided not to extend my pond for now, but rather leave it at 3000 litres. I do not however have a bottom drain and to overcome this, I want to do something similar to an article that is on koionline. Instead of using a bottom drain, the owner of the pond used piping in the pond to push all the debri on the floor to one side and suck it out via a pipe. The pond is 3 X 1 X 1 so it is not a big pond. I was thinking of installing a magic eight pump with a 2 bag koi sand filter, through my 25l ultrazap bio filter and 8w uv light. The water will then need to be pumped via a venturi outside the water into the pond and on the floor of the pond via two output pipes. The other side of the pond will have a pipe to suck up all the debri. The pump and filters will be about 10 metres from the pond. Here is an image of it: I know it is not the ideal solution. But I don't feel like breaking my pond. What pump would you recommend that has enough pressure. |
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Chris Neaves
Posts : 449 Reputation : 14 Join date : 2008-04-02
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:44 pm | |
| Hi, Magic 8 and other pool pumps are far better at pushing than pulling the water. How about the pump closer to the pond and pushing further to where you want to filters.
I see there is about 6m between the filters and the pond. What's happening there? How about a waterfall/stream return to the pond instead of a pipe? You could then eliminate the venturi as you would pick up a lot of oxygen in the waterfall / return.
Suck from the floor on one side and return via the stream at the opposite end to get internal circulation.
If the pump is going to be placed 6 - 10 meters from the pond then ensure it is more or less on water level to overcome the distance the water has to travel to the pump.
Again consider zeolite in place of the sand. It is lighter and back-washes much easier and efficiently.
Regards, Chris |
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2330 Reputation : 46 Join date : 2007-07-25 Age : 61 Location : Cape Town
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:48 pm | |
| - Chris Neaves wrote:
- Magic 8 and other pool pumps are far better at pushing than pulling the water.
And you might struggle to prime the pump everytime you open your pump to clean. The Magic 8 is self priming, but it will take a while to suck the water from 6 meters away. However, if you locate your pump close to the pond, it will prime in no time. You can leave your filtration 6 meters away should you have not enough space, only move your pump towards the pond. |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:54 pm | |
| Hi, Looking at your sketch, I am quite sure that a “dead sport” will form right at the point of the word “Venturi” on the sketch. I would extend the “bottom drain” pipe up to the word “About” on the sketch, cap the end and drill 13mm holes on both sides of the 50mm pipe (about 10cm apart), fit a “Union” to the pipe round about the water level as well; this will help when cleaning this pie. You may use the venturis, but I will lift them above the water line. Set them up to rotate the water ant-clock wise. Remember with Zeolite, you can't ad any salt to your pond! |
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cam0
Posts : 200 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-03-06
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:15 pm | |
| The diagram was a top down view of the pond.. So i'm slightly confused when you say move the pipe to the words etc.
The pipes in the pond were actually on the floor of the pond to push all the waste at the bottom of the pond to the other end to be sucked up by the "bottom drain" pipe.
The reason for the distance is that the pond is almost standalone, and I'd like to put the pump and filters around the side of my house and not take up anymore garden. My wife is already upset with me about that.
What do you mean prime the pump?
No salt, that is a bit of an issue. What else can be used in the koi sand filter?
What is a union as well? |
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cam0
Posts : 200 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-03-06
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:32 pm | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:04 pm | |
| cam0, - Quote :
- What is a union as well?
A union is a connector which can screw apart. If you use zeolite, and you ad salt, the salt will release all the ammonia from the zeolite in the filter. You need the water to circulate; top to bottom and form a water current. If you want to go with the bottom inlets,(Eight bottom inlets plus a venturi) I suggest you go for a ,75kW pump. See my changes: |
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cam0
Posts : 200 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-03-06
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:14 pm | |
| So you would put the pipe extension in?
Meaning the suction pipe would be near the venturi with 13mm holes every 10cm on both sides along the length of the pond ?? |
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2330 Reputation : 46 Join date : 2007-07-25 Age : 61 Location : Cape Town
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:22 pm | |
| .75 will be too strong for 3000 liters |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:29 pm | |
| Cam0, The "suction pipe" will be in the middle, on the bottom of the pond. Sucking water in from the sides I have a .75kW pump on a 6 000lt quarantine pond; one bottom drain, one inlet and a spray bar. I know With 9 inlets; no problem! |
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cam0
Posts : 200 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-03-06
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Fri May 01, 2009 11:53 am | |
| Which .75 pump would you recommend that is power efficient? |
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2330 Reputation : 46 Join date : 2007-07-25 Age : 61 Location : Cape Town
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Fri May 01, 2009 10:02 pm | |
| All .75 pumps will use 750 watts. The running costs will be more than R 300.00 p/month. The flow rate migh be a bit different from pump to pump. Speck pumps are the most popular and good value for money.
However, I have to digagree with Pieter. I maintain, to use a .75 pump on a 3000 liter pond is totally inpractical. That pump delivers 21 000 liters per hour. Your pond will be turned over every 10 minutes and the current will be far too large.
It is also not recommended for a two bag filter. You should have a three bag filter on a .75 according to the ordinary sandfilter specifications.
The magic 6 (250 watts) will cost you a third of the monthly running costs and are sufficient for your pond of 3 000 liters. |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Mon May 04, 2009 10:23 am | |
| A ,75kW pump input is 1100W ( 4,85 A Max) with 1100W in> 18 000 l/hr @ 5 meter. (Normally measured straight up, no bends, values, sand filters, other filters or venturis, which put restrictions on the water low). I said: - Quote :
- If you want to go with the bottom inlets,(Eight bottom inlets plus a venturi) I suggest you go for a ,75kW pump.
If you look at the distance from the pond through all the “restrictions,” and the set-up with the eight inlets, some water force is needed to “move” the debris on the pond floor in the direction of the “ section” pipe. The bigger pump could also be “choked” (regulate) with a ball value when extra force is needed. An interesting fact is that at the moment is that a ,75kW pump (R 1350) cost less then a ,45kW By using a 3 Bag Sand filter with a 25lt Ultra Zap Bio Filter more fish could be placed in this small pond without any problems. If Cam0 go with my suggestion with only two venturi inlets, then I would go for a less, stronger pump. |
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cam0
Posts : 200 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2009-03-06
| Subject: Re: Newbie Questions Mon May 04, 2009 10:58 am | |
| Would there be no need to put pipes circulating water at the bottom of the pond as well? Or will the circulation created by the venturi's suffice? |
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