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 Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril

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PostSubject: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:58 pm

The most common bacterial infections that affect koi are Aeromonas and Pseudomonas, normally introduced or multiplied as a result of poor water conditions and stress. They gain access to the koi orally, but mainly through open wounds. The most common result of bacterial infections is ulcers and finrot. Another bacterial infection is cotton wool disease caused by the bacterium Flexibacter. It causes white cotton wool type of threads almost like a fungus.

If you treat the fish promptly for bacterial diseases with an external topical treatment and salt, and attend to the water conditions and possible stress that causes the infection, the problem often disappears. However, if you did not treat immediately, antibiotic treatment will be necessary. This treatment is quite expensive and you need to know for which bacteria to treat. To know this, you have to send a swab to a laboratory for cultivation which normally take a few days. Very often, by the time the result comes back, the fish is dead.

Therefore the best is to use a broad spectrum antibiotic, but only if all else fails. We use Baytril from Bayer, which is basically a 2.3% or 5% solution of Enrofloxacin. Use a fine 25 gauge needle and inject just behind the pectoral fin where there is a soft area without scales. Remember to disinfect the injection site afterwards.(Friar's balsem and/or malachite green) Please make sure that there is no air bubbles in the syringe.

Dosages when using a 5% solution, 3 - 5 injections on alternative days.

15 cm / 42 g - 0.05 ml
25 cm / 200 g - 0.15 ml
35 cm / 540 g - 0.3 ml
45 cm / 1.1 kg - 0.45 ml
56 cm / 2 kg - 0.5 ml
66 cm / 3.5 kg - 0.7 ml
76 cm / 5.3 kg - 0.9 ml
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PostSubject: Baytril   Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:27 am

The biggest problem that I have with Baytril (or other anti biotic injections for that matter) is the fact that its shelf life is not very long. Quite often, vets supply it while the seal of the bottle was broken more than 30 days earlier, mainly because their supplies come in big bottles. By the time you use it, it is worthless and you only stress the fish and push him over the edge.
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PostSubject: Aeromonas   Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:28 am

Hi all,

I just had an outbreak of Aeromonas in my pond. I started treatment with Baytril, but with no luck and losing 2 precious babies. I had a scrape and swab taken from my local vet and the results proofed that Baytril wasn't an active antibiotic to the aeromonas. They recommended use of Genta 50. I started my first treatments 5 days ago, and I must say a huge improvement. This just proofed again the importance of the correct diagnosis and the correct treatment.

Thinus
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:38 am

Hi Thinus, welcome to the forum and thanks for the info. What dosage of Genta did your vet recommended.

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:40 pm

Hi,

Genta 50 ( gentamycin) is very dangerous!

If you fail to keep to the correct dose it may cause kidney failure, and it is not advisable to inject Koi under 30cm.
The dosage I normally use is,01ml/ 10cm (50cm=,05ml) The correct dosage is 5mg/kg of fish, for
three shots’ maximum, three days apart.

I inject Koi behind the dorsal fin, just left or right from the spine.

Nearly all the nitrobacteria in your filters is gram negative (-) bacteria. Aeromonas- “ hydrophila” “punctata”, “ salmonicida” and Flavobacterium are in this group.
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:44 pm

I agree with Pieter.

The best way to calculate the dosage is to use the weight of the fish and not the size.

Herewith a chart that I use to give me an indication of the weight.

Size - cm /Male - kg/ Female - kg

30 / 0.6 / 0.8
35 / 1 / 1.25
45 / 1.5 / 1.9
50 / 2 / 2.5
55 / 3 / 4.5
60 / 4 / 5.5
70 / 5 / 7

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:58 pm

I used Amikacin-Fresenius to cure a starting ulcer on a koi of mine earlier this year. Someone or something tried to catch the fish in my pond earlier in july this year. The fish was damaged and had a small wound on its side which developed into a ulcer.


I tried Batryl and it seemed to have no affect, then Bobby told me about this amikacin stuff which he used on his kindia showa which had a MOERSE GAT....Bobby kyk hoe lekker skinder ek nou hier van jou.. geek


Obvisouly its better to take a moster of the wound and have it analysed to find out which medication would work better.....but i obviously did not follow my own advice and went about it the cowboy way. "Shoot first and ask questions later" Luckily for me everything worked out OK... What a Face

This amikacin stuff is very potent and an overdose can kill the fish. You must know the exact weight of the fish and give the fish a course of 3 injections 3 days appart. Then you just sit back and watch. I could actually see an improvement after the 3 days since i gave the first injection. The fish was released out of quaritine about 3 weeks ago and the mark is almost gone.

I have been told that its pointless to try and use Antibiotics on a fish if the water temp is under 20'c. What does the "Experts" say or think?
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:28 pm

Hi Wayne, I would not recommend any one to use Amikacin without the assistance of a Vet. A swop should be taken to establish if she is sensitive for Amikacin or not. Kidney failure also a side effect. Fortunately I had lost of assistance from KoiCare and Koi Network

http://www.koivet.com/koivet/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:question-about-amikacin-dosing&catid=36:medicine-treatments&Itemid=57
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:09 am

Hi,

these antibiotics fall into the classification of aminoglycocides, and are very powerful drugs. E.g. Gentamycin, Amikacin, Tobramycin,Kanamycin, Lincimycin, Marbofloxacin ect. generally anything with "cin" on the end falls into this class of drug. They are highly toxic to the host of the infection, and can cause total and irreversible kidney failure and can kill Koi very easily it even slightly overdose.

Injecting Koi with antibiotics should be your last resort!
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:46 am

Hi Pieter

Sal daar tekens wees indien reeds foute gemaak is (Amikacin) en of die Kidneys dalk reeds beskadig is? Die betrokke Koi eet baie gesond, sy vel is pragtig en van bo af makeer sy niks, ulcer is onder pictoral fin, die ou plek word gesond en dan nuwe ulcer langs oue. Koi November verlede jaar vanaf Japan. Dis 'n sekondere probleem, volgends Vet wat nou reeds die 3de keer opvalm sedert Februarie 2008. Huidiglik lyk dit of sy weer besig is om te herstel.
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:19 pm

Hi LG,

Nee, as daar nier probleme is sal die Koi "opblaas" of dit sal dropsy( die skube staan weg van die lyf af, en "water plase" begin vorm onder aan die skub) ontwikkel. Soms ook Popeye.

Die ulcer onder by die pec-vin is asgevolg van parasiete ( stukkende plekkie wat septies geraak het) of was die vis daar ingespuit.

As jy seker is dat daar geen parasiete in die dam is nie, mag daar 'n "slegte bakterie" in die dam water teenwoordig wees wat telkens die "seer plek" aanval.

Jy kan 'n pasta maak deur Methylene Blue, Mecurochome en Wond poeier saam te meng en aan te wend, nadat jy die "seer plek" met Hydrogen Peroxide 10 volme ontsmet het. Seel met Frairs Balsam, blaas goed droog voordat jy vis terug sit in die water.

Daardie soort seer plek neem lank om gesond te word, omdat daar altyd beweging plaasvind.

As dit egter besig is om te herstel, los en kyk wat bebeur.
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:39 pm

Dankie Pieter

Dit is goeie nuus, ek was nog altyd bekommerd oor al die pogings wat ek uit onkunde lank terug gedoen het.
Nou kan en met meer gerusthied vorentoe kyk, na haar hertsel.

Sy is beslis 'n vegter en ek glo sy gaan nog heeltemal gesond word.
Ek het ook Vit B Co gespuit om haar bietjie te boost asook Vit C oor kos saam met garlic.

LG
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:20 pm

Net 'n opmerking ... ek het nou onlangs gesien hoe a man groot wonde op Koi behandel en dit was interessant om te sien dat hy na behandeling die wond met Corega poeier toe maak. Dis die goed wat mense gebruik om hulle valstande vas te plak ... ek was verbaas om te sien hoe lank die poeier op die vis gebly het.
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:31 pm

Nog nooit gehoor van die gebruik op koi nie maar dit maak sin. Corega maak bakterie dood, dit is 'n algemene anti-inflamatoriese middel en sal vir 'n ruk op die wond bly.

Die enigste vraag is of dit koste effektief is. Friars Balsam sit ook goed op 'n wond, is waterdig, en met propolis, Malachite green, PP of Teramycin poeier wat goedkoop is, kry jy dieselfde resultaat.

Enige idee wat dit kos?

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial infection - antibiotics - Baytril   Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:47 pm

I use this spray, bought from the local KO-OP. Costs R70.00
I use it on the dogs too, tried it on the gardner and it worked like a charm.



Contains 4 g oxytetracycline hydrochloride with a blue marker dye per 200g can in an aeosol propellant.
Indications: Terramycin Wound Spray is indicated for the prevention and treatment of topical infections caused by or associated with organisms sensitive to the action of oxytetracycline, e.g. lacerations and abrasions, wound dehiscence, dermatitis and footrot. Terramycin Wound Spray is suitable for use in cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, horses, dogs and cats.
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