The Koi Forum

The place where koi hobbyist's and dealers meet
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log in  
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Keywords
trickle liner salt filter pump skimmer sand food chagoi Bakkie bakki Potassium eyes filters Light filtration microscope shower ponds pond pumps bead zeolite medication waterproofing feeding
Latest topics
» Euregio 2013 koi show vat 21 to 39
Yesterday at 9:31 am by atb tv

» Euregio 2013 koi show vat 1 to 20
Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:10 pm by atb tv

» Filter brushes 400mm
Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:51 am by Anver

» the koi pond of Nicolas
Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:38 am by atb tv

» Filter brushes 400mm
Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:22 pm by Anver

» Sakura koi Farm Purchase
Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:14 am by Johan Theron

» Filters & Uv Light
Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:28 am by Egan65

» Question on flow rates
Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:27 am by Egan65

» the pond of Jean Marc
Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:11 pm by atb tv

June 2013
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
     12
3456789
10111213141516
17181920212223
24252627282930
CalendarCalendar
Affiliates
free forum

Filter upgrades - Help required 5 5 4
Share | 
 

 Filter upgrades - Help required

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
Neli



Posts: 1000
Reputation: 50
Join date: 2011-04-03
Age: 97
Location: Lusaka Zambia

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:14 pm

clivek wrote:
Q: The bottom drain to the pump is 50mm - not ideal but it will do. You mentioned sucking from a skimmer or weir but that is not on the diagram. So you have two inlets to the pump - how are these plumbed together (important point this).

A: It is not plumbed at the moment. I was thinking of puting a T in the primary line with a ball valve to regulate the flow.
I did the same, but to reduce friction I used Y
Q: The pre-filter with brushes after the pump - is this a bought unit or did you build a system?

A: Its a bought system.

Q: What type of sand filter is it? Have you made any modifications to the arms at the bottom?

A: It is a koi sandfilter (2 bag i found out today) No mods.

Q:Do you maintain this regularly?

A: yes every second say about. Thats why i am also redoing it.

The venturi's are there to circulate the water as primary function and secondly add oxygen.


I have been quoted 9k to recomission the system today. Shocked affraid Shocked


U can do it for much less.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Chris Neaves



Posts: 460
Reputation: 6
Join date: 2008-04-02

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:28 pm

Hi -

A 2 bag sand filter on a ,75Kw pump is not a good idea. It is too small and will clog very quickly and a lot of fine stuff will blast through the sand bed. You will have to use something else or use another 3 bag sand filter in parallel to this small filter. I am sure there is a lot of pressure being generated in this small unit. This is the main reason why you have to back wash so often. If you get the sizing right with the sand filter or filters your problems will be over.

The quote for R9000 - what was going to be done for this price?

Diagram of suction onto pump from bottom drain and skimmer. Try not to use a normal T into one 50mm pipe. Water is a strange thing and you will get more suction form the straight part than from the section coming in from the side. This is a more balance and effective way to increase flow rates.

Ok - so how do I load an image? Not sure what is going on here ....

Chris
Attachments
plumbing.jpg
You don't have permission to download attachments.
(19 Kb) Downloaded 21 times
Back to top Go down
View user profile
clivek



Posts: 11
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2012-07-07

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:41 pm

1 x Speck 3 Bag Sand Filter R2 690.00

3 x Bags Sand R225.00

1 x 25 Liter Bio Filter R850.00

1 x 25 Liter Bio balls R600.00

1 x Pre Filter R975.00

2 x 50mm Venturi R290.00

Pipe, Fittings, ball valves, consumables, etc R1 940.50

Installation R1 424.50
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Neli



Posts: 1000
Reputation: 50
Join date: 2011-04-03
Age: 97
Location: Lusaka Zambia

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:46 pm

clivek wrote:
1 x Speck 3 Bag Sand Filter R2 690.00

3 x Bags Sand R225.00

1 x 25 Liter Bio Filter R850.00

1 x 25 Liter Bio balls R600.00

1 x Pre Filter R975.00

2 x 50mm Venturi R290.00

Pipe, Fittings, ball valves, consumables, etc R1 940.50

Installation R1 424.50

I think U can find the sand filter even cheaper...Ask Nev...he removed his old sand filter...Just need to buy the manifold...or he can get u cheaper sand filter...(I think)
What bio filter and prefilter u plan to buy? Make? Name?...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
clivek



Posts: 11
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2012-07-07

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:26 am

The more i look into this the more i find that my equipment is inadequate.

The pump which i thaught was a 0.75kw is actually a 0.45kw pump. Porpoise 90/10

What size pump should i be running? do you get low energy pumps?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Neli



Posts: 1000
Reputation: 50
Join date: 2011-04-03
Age: 97
Location: Lusaka Zambia

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:18 pm

Do not despair...two smaller pumps is better than one big one...in case one packs up U have back up.
Yes there are low energy pumps like PC18000, and the ecotouch, which U can run on low for normal operations and put on high for backwashing.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Chris Neaves



Posts: 460
Reputation: 6
Join date: 2008-04-02

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:30 pm

Hi -

Put the brakes on please.

A Speck Porpoise 10 will give you about 15,000L per hour if there are no restrictions. You have a 25,000L pond. So your pump capacity is fine for your pond volume. And you are only using about ,45Kw per hour. Don't spend more on another pump.

You just need to eliminate the frictional losses and restrictions as much as you can.

The low energy pumps are fine but they cannot create much pressure - so they can only lift water up 50cm or so. They cannot push the water through a pressurized system as you have. Therefore to use a low energy pump you will spend much more money converting your system into a gravity fed system. The immediate problem you have is the 50mm bottom drain. You cannot feed enough water to a low energy / high volume pump through 50mm.

I suggest the pump is great for your pond. In the last 20 years pond builders have done a great dis-service to koi keepers - they have build poorly designed filtration systems and then simply put 1.1kW pumps on them to overcome the restrictions. A sort of brute force and ignorance approach. But in today's world a 1,1Kw pump will use about R1000.00 per month on electricity. The ,45Kw Speck will use less than half of that and still work well.

There are variable speed pumps on the market which can vary the speed and volume of the pump between ,3kW - ,5kW and ,75kW. Excellent pumps and well worth thinking about as you can run on the lowest setting and volume through the winter and for some hours during the day in summer saving thousands of rands..

With a waterfall you can eliminate the venturies. Another sand filter (new or second hand) would help. Then a second biofilter - or you can make your own. UV's become not necessary after a few years as your pond matures.

Use the piping - suction > pump > sand filter (sand filters) > biofilters or biotubes > back to pond. Don't split the returns between the UV and the biofilter.

So - the heart of the system the pump is fine.

Chris
Back to top Go down
View user profile
clivek



Posts: 11
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2012-07-07

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:26 pm

Summary

1) Keep the pump as is.

2) Replace 2 bag filter with 3 bag filter

3) use 45 degree bends and no 90's

4) shortest distance from pond back to pond

5) Suction from Bottom Drain > pump 0.45kw > sand filter (new 3 bag) > sand filter (existing 2 bag) > UV here? > Biofilters or biotubes > or UV Here? > Baki Filter > back to pond over waterfall ?


Hope this is correct ???
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Chris Neaves



Posts: 460
Reputation: 6
Join date: 2008-04-02

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:40 pm

As you are using a ,45kW pump the 50mm bottom drain is not the end of the world. Pumps are generally better at pushing than sucking. Try to get the pump on ground level and not above the level of the water. Any height up to the pumps and the output falls dramatically. Have the pump fairly close to the pond if possible. The filters etc can be further away because of the pushing power of the pump.

Try to conceal these things to make the area look good in the garden.

Pump > 2 sand filters in parallel (not sequence i.e. one ofter the other){most important - I have diagrams for you} > then if you are going to make bakki shower or buy a bakki shower you do not need any bio tubes or bio balls etc. The bakki shower is your biofilter and is much more efficient than the bio-tubes.

The sand filters in parallel are your mechanical filters and the bakki shower the biofilter. That's all you need.

Send me some pics of your set up and surrounding area directly to me and I will look at the placement for you. I don't always look at the forums and you will get a quicker reply this way.

neaves@mweb.co.za

Hope this helps.
Chris

Back to top Go down
View user profile
clivek



Posts: 11
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2012-07-07

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:39 am

I emailed you the pics.

Please send me the diagrams.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
clivek



Posts: 11
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2012-07-07

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:05 am

Back to top Go down
View user profile
quinten



Posts: 410
Reputation: 28
Join date: 2011-09-28
Age: 31
Location: Kwa-Zulu Natal South- Africa

PostSubject: Re: Filter upgrades - Help required   Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:02 pm

clivek wrote:


Hi there Civek ,

Do you have a update pictures of ur pond?


Regards

Quinten
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 

Filter upgrades - Help required

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

 Similar topics

-
» entertainment required
» AquaTop CF300 Cannister Filter (SunSun)
» Nano marine/freshwater, with in built in bio filter aquarium build.
» Filter upgrades - Help required
» Topfin 20 filter

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Koi Forum :: Filtration :: All your questions about filtration answered-