Neli wrote:

Hi SAS .
Thanks for the valuable info...very informative!
The breeders dont keep very large amount of oyagoi...but the best...10 is a lot...remember 1 fish can have 1000000eggs...They try different combinations, to see which oyagoi produces the largest % of desirable fry...not all two oyagoi give the same results...that is why U see them always counting when culling.
Also very few fish even from the best parents are perfect.

Hi Neli,

Thanks for your reply.

I am just sharing what i know and heard.

I think you misunderstood what i typed about Momotaro's "Mako ". Those "less than 10 koi" that Momotaro kept were not Oyagoi, they are just tosai with the two characteristic that Momotaro want.

At that time, they were still tosai. Momotaro still need to grow them for a couple of years and do a few breeding experiments with them, before Momotaro classify them as Oyagoi. And it is very possible that at the end of the whole process, none of them will be Oyagoi.

By the way, that "click click" counting device that the breeder use, is to count the amount of fry they keep after each culling. So, they know the density in each mudpond, then they can calculate feeding rate. Not really for them to count how many desirable koi they produced. Because at that time, even the breeder himself won't be 100% sure which one will be desire and which one is not.

Just think about this, if the breeders can tell which fry will be desirable and which one is not. Then why on earth they need to cull so many times??? If they are really that good in predicting a fry's future development, the should just count and cull once only!!!

But, they will count / know how many desirable koi they have after they harvest all the tosai from the mudpond and selected all the tategoi that is not for sale as a tosai.
(Most breeders will hide and not allow dealers / buyers to even view those real tategoi.)

I hate to say this, after all the Japanese breeders are business man. They need to sale their koi, in order to make a living. After all, they need to protect their industry. There are always something that they don't want anyone to know.

I am not saying anyone should do this, but i am just saying that this is me:
"Anyone who tell me something about koi, i won't just believe it without trying and experience it myself. I will filter what they told me and try it myself when i go home."

Just an interesting fact, most people think that a 35 to 40cm tosai is a jumbo tosai. But i can tell you that, in China and Taiwan. I personally seen many breeders have produced tosai up to 50 to 60cm with very good skin quality. I believe the Japanese are also able to do that, but they just won't show dealers from oversea those real jumbo. Because those koi are not for export, only for local Japanese market.

I just want to share my what i know and experienced.

My friend, I hope you won't feel offence by this.

Thanks.

Regards,
Tony

Darling,
there is nothing offensive in what U say...only lots of sense...
I was just trying to explain some things ...the way I understood them, but that does not mean that I always understand it right...or that there might not be several possible explanations..
I am glad that U bought the showa to study it...learn...it is more fun!
I know it will bring U lots of happiness.

Neli wrote:

Darling,
there is nothing offensive in what U say...only lots of sense...
I was just trying to explain some things ...the way I understood them, but that does not mean that I always understand it right...or that there might not be several possible explanations..
I am glad that U bought the showa to study it...learn...it is more fun!
I know it will bring U lots of happiness.

Hi Neli,

Thanks for your reply.

I see you also bought a lot of those Sakai (Isawa) Tosai.

Please also keep me updated about their development.

Thanks.

Regards,
Tony

Thanks SAS!
I posted them here. Did U see them...I need to keep half maybe...the rest will give to my daughter...U need to help me chose 5...the best! He he he!
Have no idea how to chose showa...it confuses me...know how to in theory but hard to apply...
Will post later pictures of them bowled one by one...

Neli wrote:

Thanks SAS!
I posted them here. Did U see them...I need to keep half maybe...the rest will give to my daughter...U need to help me chose 5...the best! He he he!
Have no idea how to chose showa...it confuses me...know how to in theory but hard to apply...
Will post later pictures of them bowled one by one...

Hi Neli,

Thanks for your reply.

I saw your post.

But the pictures are not very clear.

So, i didn't make many comment.

But i will wait for you to post better photos, one by one.

And i will be able to tell you which 5 I think are good.

By the way, you need to tell me what do you want from those Showa. Before i can tell you, which 5 i think you should keep.

I meant,

1) Do you want to show them and win in a baby koi show?
2) Do you want a Showa that need many years (7 to 10 years) to develop into their peak? ( A showa fro future.)
3) Or, you don't care about skin quality and pattern. You just want a Showa that can grow big?
etc.....

Because when you choose a koi, you need to need to know what you expect out of a koi first. Before you go and choose which koi to pick.

But of course, i am just helping with my limited knowledge. There is not guarantee that my choice is the best.

Thanks.

Regards,
Tony

He he he! None off this...
I want pretty showa that boys will not spit toooo much on...I dont like may babies insulted...he he he!
I am too impatient to wait for 7 years for a showa to look good, dont show...For me they are pets I love no matter what...I enjoy looking at the...touching them...laughing at them...fun!
So if I have better showa there will be less negative remarks...and I enjoy when someone says: your Koi is good!

Neli wrote:

He he he! None off this...
I want pretty showa that boys will not spit toooo much on...I dont like may babies insulted...he he he!
I am too impatient to wait for 7 years for a showa to look good, dont show...For me they are pets I love no matter what...I enjoy looking at the...touching them...laughing at them...fun!
So if I have better showa there will be less negative remarks...and I enjoy when someone says: your Koi is good!

Hi Neli,

Thanks for your reply.

Ok,i see.

Will tell you which 5 I think are good, after you posted the individual photos.

Thanks.

Regards,
Tony

sas wrote:

Neli wrote:

He he he! None off this...
I want pretty showa that boys will not spit toooo much on...I dont like may babies insulted...he he he!
I am too impatient to wait for 7 years for a showa to look good, dont show...For me they are pets I love no matter what...I enjoy looking at the...touching them...laughing at them...fun!
So if I have better showa there will be less negative remarks...and I enjoy when someone says: your Koi is good!

Hi Neli,

Thanks for your reply.

Ok,i see.

Will tell you which 5 I think are good, after you posted the individual photos.

Thanks.

Regards,
Tony

I will let U know as soon as I have a bit free time to bowl them...