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 Torazo Sanke

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Miya Oki Koi

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PostSubject: Torazo Sanke    Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:41 pm

Torazo Sanke, not sure of the size but I think its around 70cm now. Ja Ja Wayne and sas, I was only joking on Cliff's tread, I like your comments cause you say how you feel and why, like Costa say " You have balls to say how you feel" So honest opinions please. Very Happy

[img][/img]

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PostSubject: Re: Torazo Sanke    Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:29 pm

Can you rotate the photo please.
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PostSubject: Re: Torazo Sanke    Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:02 pm

amazing sanke affraid affraid is it local bred or imported and how much did it cost Question
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PostSubject: Re: Torazo Sanke    Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:04 pm

Ok hope this help Very Happy

[img][/img]

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PostSubject: Re: Torazo Sanke    Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:29 pm

Not a bad looking sanke, just wished it had more white. I like the smaller sumi steps as on it. The kiwa behind the beni spot on the head feels a bit messy but it could be due to the maruzome type kiwa. The koi looks like it needs some colour enhancer because the beni on the head is darker than the on the rest of its body. Red (beni) is genetically stronger to the front of Gosanke. I like it that the pattern stops before it gets to the tail fin.
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Chris Maritz

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PostSubject: Re: Torazo Sanke    Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:51 pm

That is one lovely sanke. The photo doesn't do the bodyshape any favours.

That koi has a strong presence in the pond.
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PostSubject: RE:   Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:58 pm

Hi Miya Oki Koi,


Is this a male sanke?

If this is a female sanke and this photo is taken at 70cm.
I will say this sanke has good body shape.
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PostSubject: Re: Torazo Sanke    Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:09 pm

Female sanke. Pic was taken at 66cm.
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PostSubject: RE:   Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:23 pm

Chris,

Thanks for the information.

The body shape is good, looks like she have Matsunosuke genetics on her body shape.

But the quality of the Hi is not ideal. It seems like the Hi has already reached it's full potential before and now is going down hill.

But with proper care, this sanke should be about to grow above 80cm.

The above is just my opinion, maybe i am not correct..... Embarassed
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PostSubject: RE:   Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:24 pm

Chris,

Thanks for the information.

The body shape is good, looks like she have Matsunosuke genetics on her body shape.

But the quality of the Hi is not ideal. It seems like the Hi has already reached it's full potential before and now is going down hill.

But with proper care, this sanke should be about to grow above 80cm.

The above is just my opinion, maybe i am not correct..... Embarassed
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Miya Oki Koi

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PostSubject: Re: Torazo Sanke    Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:52 am

Thanx Guys. must agree with Chris, this fish looks lovely in her pond and does have a strong presence. The hi doesn't look as nice on the photo as it realy is.
@Kobus- She is imported from Japan some time ago from Torazo.
She will be one of two Sanke female parent koi at Miya Oki Koi and that's why I love her big pattern.
Thanx Chris for letting me have her and the rest of her buddies. Cool Very Happy
Will take some up to date photos when she settled in at her new home.

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Last edited by Miya Oki Koi on Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Torazo Sanke    Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:03 am

sas did you pick up the Matsunosuke genes from the head and nose part of the body?

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PostSubject: RE:   Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:36 am

Hi Miya Oki Koi,

Thanks for your reply.

I will share my opinion, but maybe i am not correct.

I pick it up, by the combination of 3 information:

1) It is a female koi.
2) The photo is taken at +-70cm.
3) The body shape is very slim according to the photo, I meant no big stomach.

Matsunosuke has two separated bloodline of Sanke, one with Magoi genes and the other one without Magoi genes.

To be more precise, I guess this sanke contain have some genes of the Matsunosuke snake's Magoi bloodline.

But do you know there are two type of Magoi in Japan, but they are not the same genetically:

Type (A) - Magoi that is originally in Japan and they are very slim.
Type (B) - Magoi that import from other Asia countries into Japan, similar to the normal common carp that we see in South Africa.

In year 2004 in Japan, there was a KHV outbreak in their local river.

Many wild Type (A) and (B) Magoi die. So, the Japanese take the two type of Magoi and did a genetic analysis, they found out there are 3% difference in genetic between the two Magoi.

Both "Sakai Fish Farm (SFF)" and "Isawa Nishikigoi Center (INC) - Matsunosuke" did admit that they add some Magoi genes into their gosanke.

But do you notice one thing, it is not unusual that you found a over 1m INC gosanke. But it is very rare that you will found a 1m SFF gosanke. And SFF gosnake always have a wider body looks, whereas INC gosanke are always look very slim.

Do you see the difference now?

I don't have any concrete prove, but i guess SFF used Type (B) and INC used Type (A) to add Magoi genes into their gosanke genetics.

And your sanke have the body shape / look of the Type (B) Magoi, this is why i guess it has some Matsunosuke Magoi Sanke genes down the line.
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PostSubject: Re: Torazo Sanke    Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:02 pm

Thank you for that info sas, very informative and now I learned something new, but from what I understand from you post she should have type a blood not b because of her slim body shape, Right or is there something I'm still missing? Embarassed

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PostSubject: RE:   Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:47 pm

Miya Oki Koi wrote:
Thank you for that info sas, very informative and now I learned something new, but from what I understand from you post she should have type a blood not b because of her slim body shape, Right or is there something I'm still missing? Embarassed

Hi Miya Oki Koi,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, you are right.
My opinion is this sanke has more Type (A) genes.
But i can only say this after i knew the following details:
1) Is a female koi.
2) This koi is only about 70cm.

But if i show you a photo of a Type (B) genes male koi, he will also have very slim body shape.

Or, if i shown you a female 15 years old fully grew (in term of body length) koi from Type (A) genes. She will not have a very slim body shape.

Therefore, you need to know some background information first. Before you can make a guess if this koi has more Type (A) or Type (B) genes in it.

But in short term, there are a few things that i think will help us to identify if this koi has more Type (A) or Type (B) genes.

1) A female Type (A) genes koi will have very slim body compare to Type (B), before she has full grow.
2) Both male and female Type (B) genes sansai or above koi should have "up hill slope" between the head and the shoulder. Where Type (A) don't have this "up hill slope".
3) At tosai or nisai, Type (A) koi will looks very slim and don't have a wide shoulder. And Type (B) koi will look more muscular and have a wide shoulder.

================================================================

But nowadays, Type (A) and Type (B) koi are mixed together in breeding. So, it is not uncommon that you get both Types from the same spawning.

My opinion is both Type (A) and Type (B) has there own advantages and disadvantages.
So, you as a fish farm owner. You have to decide which one you would like to breed or do you want to mix them. If you mix them, what do you want to achieve....etc.
================================================================

The above is just my opinion that i want share with everyone, i don't have any concrete prove that they are correct..... Embarassed

Thanks.
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