The ponds of quite a few hobbyists in the Gauteng area was infected with KHV the past two weeks and I know of two confirmed cases in the Cape Town area.

I believe that there are many more.

It has also been widely reported that one of the largest koi farms in Japan apparently has KHV, and there are various reports of KHV outbreaks across the globe, especially Germany.

I wish to issue a warning, please be aware of the threat and only buy from trusted dealers who are willing to provide you their latest KHV free certificates and who guarantee thir fish to be KHV free. It is not worth taking any chances.

There are currently various rumors flying around on which dealers might be infected. Unfortunately it is very difficult to pinpoint the source of the latest outbreak.

Should you encounter large losses, please consider the possibility that it might be KHV and do the testings. The procedure is described on this forum.

Please also keep us posted. A informed koi community is a strong community. We have to try and find the source of this dreadful decease and we can not fold our hands while some dealers might be selling KHV infected fish, or for that matter, fish that have not undergone proper KHV quarantine procedures or fish that has not been tested properly.

If the SA koi community does not support each other, and if we do not talk about the problem, and if we allow the decease to take control, our Government will stop the import of all koi, which will be a sad day.

Skrikwekkend! Ek neem kennis-baie dankie,Paul.

Yes Paul, this is devastating, however I could not agree with you more that the source must be identified to prevent other keepers from contracting this deadly virus.

What I suggest is all people affected should post the names of the dealers they bought fish in the past 2 month from like David, without blame trowing...maybe a common denominator will be found, and koi keepers alerted to prevent future disasters.
With the current attitude of forums protecting dealers , deleting posts, People complaining that KOISA knew for 2 month and not alerting the public...it is a formula for disaster!
We need to be protected...
I am now scared...Want to come in May, but from whom should I not buy fish I dont know! Might not buy from anyone in this situation...if I dont know who is the problem.

Could not agree more Wayne.

Paul / Colin

Lets chat about the preventative measures a bit. Everyone is scared, no one knows where to buy now...not that im in the market right now. I have not bought any new fish since July.

Costa for example always give me a KHV certificate i assume its for the batch and not that particular fish. Can one have the tests done on a particular fish without harming it?

What are the costs involved? etc etc...

Wayne

Koi from the participating breeders in Niigata (all the famous breeders) gets tested on a regular basis and when we import, we get the records of the latest tests done.

We also need a Health and specifically HKV free certificate issued by the Government of Japan which is part of our Import permit requirements.

We use one of the largest agents in Japan exporting koi(Ornafish International, now Ornafish Japan), and because their reputation is at risk, they do further testing of all batches in Amsterdam (Lelistadt) before they send the fish. We normally get this results a week after arrival.

When the fish arrives in South Africa, we quarantine them for 5-6 weeks, trying to force out any KHV if present, by manipulating the temperature and by introducing low quality "feeder" fish to them.

If all goes well, we send (representative swob's = 3 per batch) of all batches (each separate breeder) to MDS and only after receipt of the results, we start to sell.

If a buyer insists on a result on the specific fish he buys, we do that at cost being R 165.00.

Sakks also insist on recent KHV results before we may sell at a show. In another words, by the time we sell a fish at a show, the batch it comes from has been tested 4 times. I don't know of any dealer who tests each and every individual fish.

When a hobbyist buys a fish, he should also quarantine the fish, and it is actually recommended that he also test the fish before being released into his main pond, especially if they show any signs of ill health. It all depends on what risk you are prepared to take.

There are dealers out there who do not buy from respected breeders, organise a KHV free certificate to comply with theimport permit, and sells the moment the fish arrive in SA.

On your question as to the procedure to test, it is actually very simple. You take a swab (rolling it through the mouth and gills and body) and send it. Clippings are not necessary and very little stress is involved.

Thanks Paul, at R 165 a test i think this will just get added onto my purchases from now on.

I think U should just make an organisation to protect U...Dealers that are not members should be considered unsafe dealers.
If someone has an outbreak he can complain to them and they can do investigation/testing to see who it the culprit, and notify every one.
Ones a dealer is clean, he can be tested and declared free of KHV officially.
Now who takes the tests which fish is tested...no one knows apart from the dealer...
How meaningful is this test to me, if I know that the dealer will not disclose if he has it...
If that organisation tests the dealers regularly and independently ...I will feel more protected and safe.
Even 3 tests a year or after each consignment is enough...
I think all that deleting of posts, censoring every thing, is not a productive solution...at Koi4U.
U are all grown up, to be monitored and treated like children and reminded all the time that it is a private forum, and U can only say what they want U to say.U can not disagree with few people's opinions...or your post will be deleted.Members post in fear...U dont know how many complaints i get, and how many people dont want to post there.
Every one is entitled to an opinion.
What is that forum all about? Is it about the Koi and the koi hobbyists interests? Or something else?
I honestly dont get it!

Neli, the problem has many sides.

1. We the hobbists dont know who we can trust and we want names. (To be fair, you cant name dealers with KHV cause its like naming people with HIV")

2. If the dealer does come out and say "hi all, sorry i had KHV but i cleaned it all up and everything is OK" then the people that lost koi are going to seek compensation and he is going to be ruined as no one will buy from him again. So he saves his own butt by saying nothing.

3. The other dealers are also upset as this is now affecting ther bussiness so they also want names...But now the gossip starts and i am sure sometimes the wrong people get accused. So this is when people start threatning with legal action.

4. The forums sit in the middle, hobbists use them and the dealers and in many situation like here in SA the forum belongs to a dealer. So it becomes a tricky situation. I mean if the dealer on the forum does not like what you are saying he simple removes your post. Even this forum had a period where it was so pro SAKKS that it would delete your posts if you said anything bad about them, thankfully it has evolved since then. The deleting of posts all comes down to whom the forum is loyal. Team A or Team B? SA has 3 forums and all has had simular problems and i think all 3 got formed due to break-away groups. Once there was only 1, a SAKKS forum. Its no more - gone long time ago.

Koi-bito is better in that aspect, they dont delete posts and are not loyal to any particular group. They dont delete posts but have a area in the forum where posts get removed to. They replace the post they delete with referce to the new location. So its no longer in the main topic that people are reading but you can still go and see what someone said. Its more transparent that way. They have only once deleted topics completely and that was when 2 South Africas was making rasist comments on the forum. Also something i dont aprove off is having an active forum using hobbyist being a moderator. It becomes far to easy to delete things off people you dont like or things you dont agree with. Its got this feeling of communism and the secret police where the public has no voice.

5. SAKKS / KOISA also sits in the middle. The hobbyist wants them to act on their behalf but they need the dealers and they need the hobbyists to maintain a active community. There has also been allogations in the past that infected fish where sold by dealers at their koi shows. So it does put them in a tough spot. So they sit in the same situation as some of the forums maybe even worse than the forums. My feeling has been the last while in anycase that its not their responsiblity to do anything, they provide the event and we attend. What transpires there is not their fault.

6. The person that got KHV has no leg to stand on as the dealers and the public always throw old latency move. Just curiouse that right now right over the world there are KHV outbreaks all at the same time....latency? please.... Best the person that got KHV can do is to try and find out from where he got it, chat to that source. Dont seek compensation. Just make sure no one else faills into the trap.

So it is never going to play out like we want it. Emotionaly i want number 1) but logically thinking it is not going to happen.

Your only defence is stick with the reputable big dealers that you know, leave the little unknown guys alone and listen to the grapevine. I already got 2 names of dealers that had possitve KHV test this year. No proof, all via the grapevine.

The things we do to avoid HIV can be applied to KHV.
Dont shop around. / Dont sleep around.
Have fixed dealers. / Have fixed partners.
Before you receive koi from a dealer QT and do the test yourself. / Have your new partner tested.

Any case. This KHV thing is going to be over soon and in a few months no one will remember. Its has happend in exactly the same manner 3/4 times since i have been involved with koi. A outbreak, the big noise from dealers and hobbysits. The search for the culprit. The silencing of people, the deleting of topics and posts on forums. People phoning each other. Threatening people with legal action. A article in KOISA about the KHV outbreak and the big losses and what we can do to protect ourselfs. And then its all over, till next year.

Wayne

Neli's post deleted because it is off the topic and a personal attack. Costa and Wayne's reponses therefore also had to be deleted as it was a response to the post deleted.

Please keep to the subject.