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 Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?

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bubbles



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PostSubject: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:36 pm

I have been doing allot of reading about baki showers and trickle towers and have been to a few koi keepers that are running Trickle towers but what i would like to know is.

1 ) What are the diffrences between Trickle towers and Baki Showers pertaining to the results you get ?

2 ) I have read that there are Japanese Breeders I think that are running Bakki Showers without Mech Filters some even without Setlement chambers and have no problems with Disoved Organics or Nitrates is this possible ?

3 ) In youre personal Experiance and opinion whould you rather use a Conventional filter system, Baki Shower or Trickle Tower ?

4 ) Lastly does anyone know of any diy sites for the Baki SHower ?
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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:41 pm

Hi,
Both trickle filters and baki showers have open media where the water is sprayed or poured down from the top. Therefore they are the same. Both are very efficent methods of biological filtration.

Where you use them depends on your circumstances and space. If you have a conventional up-flow filter you can easily make a trickle filter above the existing water area and thus enhance the bioconversion.

You do not have to have a settlement area/tank for a filttation system to work. Just as you do not have to have a discharge box. The main thing is to have the mechanical filtration before the bioconverter. In cases where the filter acts as a mechanical system and a biological system you need to maintain it regularly.

Regards,
Chris
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sas



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:00 pm

Chris Neaves wrote:
Hi,
Both trickle filters and baki showers have open media where the water is sprayed or poured down from the top. Therefore they are the same. Both are very efficent methods of biological filtration.

Hi, i just want to add my opinion here, but maybe i am not correct.

Although TT (Trickle Filters) and Bakki Showers both want to achieve the same result = efficient methods of biological filtration, but the original ideas behind the two are not the same.

TT = The idea behind TT is to trickle water, in order for the filter medias and water has both "BIGGER CROSS SECTION AREA WITH AIR" and "LONGER CONTACT TIME WITH AIR".

Bakki Shower = The idea behind Bakki Shower is to make a artifical "Natural Water Fall", by mean the filter media and water gain more oxygen by "SPLASHING".

So, the different between the two systems is as follows:
TT = Water moving slowly through the filter media.
Bakki Shower = Water moving very fast through filter media.

Advantage and Disadvantages:
TT's Advantages = Need a smaller pump to operate, can use plastic, ceramic... etc. basically any filter media in it.
TT's Disadvantages = It's original design is suitable to use in a small enviroment, E.G. a big fish tank, to filter a small amount of water.

Bakki Shower's Advantages = It's original design is to be use in a koi pond, by mean use to filter a large amount of water.
Bakki Shower's Disadvantages = Basically it can only use ceramic as filter media. And it need to use a bigger water pump.

Conclusion:
Since, TT's Liters of water/Hour rate is lower than Bakki Shower. So if you want to build TT you need a smaller pump, if you want to build Bakki Shower you will need a bigger pump.

My Opinion:
Bakki Shower is more suitable for a koi pond, because you pond's water will be filtered more times than the TT.

But for bakki shower to work fully, you need Bacterial House (BH). and BH is very expensive.

The above is just my opinion, so if i said something wrong please forgive me.
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Pieter J de Villiers



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:57 am

Hi,

Quote :
Bakki Shower's Disadvantages = Basically it can only use ceramic as filter media


Quote :
But for bakki shower to work fully, you need Bacterial House (BH). and BH is very expensive.

I would like to disagree with this statement!

I use aqua rock in my bakki shower and it is working well. The aqua rock is a cheap medium from pieces of clay fired at very high temperatures (sintered) so that the outer layer has very pitted texture and provides a large surface area for bacteria to grow.

The speed over any media does not affect the colonization of bacteria!
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sas



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:54 pm

Pieter J de Villiers wrote:
Hi,

Quote :
Bakki Shower's Disadvantages = Basically it can only use ceramic as filter media


Quote :
But for bakki shower to work fully, you need Bacterial House (BH). and BH is very expensive.

I would like to disagree with this statement!

I use aqua rock in my bakki shower and it is working well. The aqua rock is a cheap medium from pieces of clay fired at very high temperatures (sintered) so that the outer layer has very pitted texture and provides a large surface area for bacteria to grow.

The speed over any media does not affect the colonization of bacteria!

The above is just my opinion which is not exactly 100% correct, so i do expect diagreements.

But thanks for your reply, discussion and disagreement is what we need to improve each other's skill.

Thanks.
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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:32 pm

Hi sas,

Pieter is spot on with his comments.

The flow rate or velocity of the water moving through a trickle filter and a bakki shower is exactly the same. Gravity pulls the water through the media and gravity is equal on all molecules.

Both are open - both have water pumped down from the top. You cannot slow the water down in either - unless you block the flow. The water flows at the speed gravity will pull it through the filter.

The only real difference is the baki shower is simply a stepped trickle filter. Several troughs are placed one on top of the other. Any real benfit? I doubt it. A baki shower does create a water fall effect but then so does a trickle filter - inside the media. If anything the water flow rate through a baki shower is SLOWER than a trickle filter because each trough slightly restricts the water because it has a bottom where as a trickle filter does not.

What is of importance is the fact that the velocity of the water moving through either of these filters is much faster than a conventional up-flow filter. Secondly in both of these filters the media (any media) is exposed to the atmosphere. Much air is dissolved into the water in both filter designs.

The TT or trickle tower tends to be narrow in design. Donít get confused by this. Trickle filter can be any size and some massive ones with simple crates stacked ontop of each other are used in Japan and Taiwan.

The filter media can be anything that is inert and does not affect the water quality. Although as I have mentioned plastic is preferred because it is light and the structure supporting the Trickle filter or baki shower does not have to be so big.

I hope this helps clear up some misconceptions.

What is BH (bacterial house)?

Regards,
Chris
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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:41 pm

Hi sas,

I have just looked at the posting you made on the new filter media in Japan after I wrote the above posting.

Have a look at the advertisment and look at the picture of the pond with a bank of yellow crates stacked in the back ground. These are obviously crates to hold the new media. That's exactly what I was referring to.

So you have a massive tricle filter. When it comes to that size of filter and that size of pond the word "trickle" becomes a little confusing.

It would become a large baki shower if they had arranged the media in a series of trays one on top of the other.

Regards,
Chris
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sas



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:11 pm

Chris Neaves wrote:
Hi sas,

I have just looked at the posting you made on the new filter media in Japan after I wrote the above posting.

Have a look at the advertisment and look at the picture of the pond with a bank of yellow crates stacked in the back ground. These are obviously crates to hold the new media. That's exactly what I was referring to.

So you have a massive tricle filter. When it comes to that size of filter and that size of pond the word "trickle" becomes a little confusing.

It would become a large baki shower if they had arranged the media in a series of trays one on top of the other.

Regards,
Chris

Thanks for your reply, a nice discussion. Very Happy

SAS
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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:43 am

and in good spirit ...... which is the way it should be.
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bubbles



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:26 am

Thanks for all youre reply's Smile

So A Baki and TT have the same functions, Degassing,Oxidising DoC's and nitrification. Bakki is just a multi platform TT or am I making a huge mistake in saying that ?

The reason for all my questions is that I am planning to build a 30 to 40 thousand litre pond in my front yard late this year or middle next year depending on finances. I have put aside a section of 3.8 m x 1.8 m for filtration. I could also use that space for more pond volume and put all filtration above that section Aka sand filter - Multiple Bakki Shower filters.

Any and All Advice would be apreciated.

I was thinking pond to settlement chamber and in the sttlement chamber have my UV open to sand filter to multiple bakki shower filters.

Any photo's or skethces of youre Filtration systems would also be apreciated especially those with TT or Baki filters incorporated.

Ps. Any tips or tricks of desighns to minimise clogging and maintanence.
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sas



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PostSubject: RE:   Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:23 am

I hope the following pictures can give you some idea and help you on your design:















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bubbles



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Hi Sas Thanx for the pics I would like to know what type of media is that and where to get it also I see that the media in the lowest crates seem to be submerged. For what size pond is that setup you have there sufficient ? How many litres are you pumping through that manifold per hour ?

This Seems like a easy and clean setup.

What bags are those you put the media in ?

Is that Manifold pype 50 mm or 110 mm ?

What type of maintanance is required for this setup ?

Estimate costs on media for this setup Sas ?
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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: pond ideas for bubbles   Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:29 pm

Hi bubbles - some ideas for your new pond ...

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Chris Neaves



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PostSubject: so proud   Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:31 pm

I am so proud - a got the posting of the picture correct the first time!!
Chris
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sas



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PostSubject: Re: Baki Shower or trickle Filter Whats the Diffrence ?   Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:33 pm

bubbles wrote:
Hi Sas Thanx for the pics I would like to know what type of media is that and where to get it also I see that the media in the lowest crates seem to be submerged. For what size pond is that setup you have there sufficient ? How many litres are you pumping through that manifold per hour ?

This Seems like a easy and clean setup.

What bags are those you put the media in ?

Is that Manifold pype 50 mm or 110 mm ?

What type of maintanance is required for this setup ?

Estimate costs on media for this setup Sas ?

The filter in those picture is not my. It belong to a guy in Taiwan. (I just want to give you some idea, so i post those pictures.)

Back to the questions:
The bag which we put the media in, is the bag which we use in washing our clothes in washing machine. NB! But you don't need them, that guy just want to make it look professional, so this is why he use it.

I am not sure is the material Manifold pype 50 mm or 110 mm. THE MAIN IDEA IS TO USE MATERIAL THAT IS POROUS. But the best material to use is ceramic material of not bigger than 100mm in width.
(NB! If you want to save money, use plastics like bio balls, hair curers, shade cloth... will also work, but they will not work as good as ceramic materials.)

Once the filter is set up, there should be no maintanance required.

Estimate cost, to be honest i don't know. All i know is "shade cloth" is the cheapest material you can get in South africa.

Some picture of a local diy TT:














The water and the koi with the UV-light switched off for 1.5 weeks:










Picture of the water and the koi with both the air and water pump switched off:
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