The Koi Forum

The place where koi hobbyist's and dealers meet
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log in  
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Keywords
BLACK spawn airlift Waterplants pumps disease Bead drum SPOTS shimmies dealers supaverm western nexus cape List lice Bobby media electricity pump filter dropsy Chris profidrum vacuum
Latest topics
» Help! What do o do with fry??
To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSat Jun 01, 2019 2:34 am by Zombolina

» A magical Japanese garden
To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeFri May 24, 2019 1:45 pm by atb tv

» Nogyosai Nagaoka koi show 2018 The vats part 2
To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Nov 25, 2018 11:52 am by atb tv

» Nogyosai Nagaoka koi show 2018 the vats part 1
To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Nov 25, 2018 10:58 am by atb tv

» Pump size relative to the rest of my equipment
To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeFri Aug 31, 2018 10:04 am by Bilaal

» Off the grid
To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSat Aug 25, 2018 5:53 pm by GREGB

» Japan souvenir 2017 part 1
To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 21, 2018 12:59 pm by atb tv

» Ikeage 2017 of 80cm+
To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 1:58 pm by atb tv

» the ponds in 2017
To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeTue Dec 26, 2017 3:14 pm by atb tv

August 2019
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
   1234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
262728293031 
CalendarCalendar
Affiliates
free forum


Share
 

 To Hell and back...

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Colin Hunt

Colin Hunt

Posts : 285
Reputation : 22
Join date : 2010-02-16
Age : 64
Location : TYGERBERG HILLS

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeWed Jan 05, 2011 4:45 pm

I have had serious problems in my pond since June last year after purchasing several new fish everything went pear shaped.

After several treatments of Virkon S and salt, FMC, several treatments of PP things seemed to improve but soon something else would pop up. I have to anesthetize several of my favorite Koi due to ulcers. I started a course of Bytril injections which helped for awhile but soon the fish would become lethargic and hang in the water.

Bobby and Drikus came to my rescue one day and moved all my Koi to the quarantine pond and injected all the fish with Nu flor and treated the pond with Bio Talk. There was at first a slight improvement but after a second and third injection with the help of my wife things started to improve.

Just when we all thought thing were ok, the ammonia in the pond started to increase at an alarming rate and the fish looked terrible and to some showed signs of KHV. Paul came and did some scraps a few weeks ago but could not detect anything. Some people thought it wise to have KHV tests done, so on Monday I took six swabs and sent it to Durban. I have just received them which I have attached. Thank the Lord I can keep the rest of my beloved Koi pets.
Attachments
SICKFISH0003.JPG
Ammonia
You don't have permission to download attachments.
(56 Kb) Downloaded 19 times
SICKFISH0002.JPG
Ammonia
You don't have permission to download attachments.
(83 Kb) Downloaded 16 times
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Michael Sequeira

Michael Sequeira

Posts : 64
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 42
Location : Lenasia

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeThu Jan 06, 2011 7:57 am

sho... Shocked ...glad to hear all is good now...so what was killing your fish?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Admin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2521
Reputation : 46
Join date : 2007-07-25
Age : 57
Location : Cape Town

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeThu Jan 06, 2011 8:58 am

Hi Colin

I am relieved although I did not think it will be KHV, as everything pointed to a serious bacterial infection.

It is good to have the piece of mind that it is not KHV. Rather be safe than sorry.

Lets hold thumbs for a speedy recovery, although you must realise that such a serious bacterial infection that your fish have, takes a lot of time. There are no quick fixes when the infection has spread internally.

It is now crucial to maintain perfect water conditions and minimum stress.

_________________
Paul Viljoen
E Mail: koi@absamail.co.za ; http://www.koionline.co.za

Koi are not my whole life but make my life whole
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.koionline.co.za
Colin Hunt

Colin Hunt

Posts : 285
Reputation : 22
Join date : 2010-02-16
Age : 64
Location : TYGERBERG HILLS

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeThu Jan 06, 2011 11:20 am

Thanks Paul, yes you were correct all along. Thank you for your help and support.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
happykoi



Posts : 32
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-02-19

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeFri Jan 07, 2011 10:37 am

Hi Colin,

Where did these fish come from? I'll bet my last dollar they weren't quarantined properly... - bacteria can take ages to manifest and in colder water they are virtually dormant. Did you send for a bacteriogram?

Everyone worries about KHV, as they should, but then overlook bacteria - which then kills and damages collections instead!

:-(
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Admin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2521
Reputation : 46
Join date : 2007-07-25
Age : 57
Location : Cape Town

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeFri Jan 07, 2011 11:13 am

Hi William

Swabs were send and the results, Aeromonas Hydrophilia and Aeromonas Sobria.

Herewith the results and recommended treatments suggested to be sensitive:

To Hell and back... Col1

To Hell and back... Col2


Aeromonas hydrophilia, also called ulcer disease or just Aeromonas, is the number one killer of Koi. It does not kill nearly as fast as a virus like KHV, but if not treated, a Koi will usually eventually succumb to the disease. Aeromonas is always present in water, it is also an opportunistic bacteria. The skin ulcer will grow bigger and bigger until muscle tissue is exposed. After that, the infection turns septic and spreads throughout a Koi in their blood stream.




_________________
Paul Viljoen
E Mail: koi@absamail.co.za ; http://www.koionline.co.za

Koi are not my whole life but make my life whole
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.koionline.co.za
Colin Hunt

Colin Hunt

Posts : 285
Reputation : 22
Join date : 2010-02-16
Age : 64
Location : TYGERBERG HILLS

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeFri Jan 07, 2011 2:11 pm

Hi William,

I purchased Koi from a few people and have a pretty good idea were it came from but feel it is unfair to the dealers to mention names as it cannot be said with certainty.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
happykoi



Posts : 32
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-02-19

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Quarantine   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 09, 2011 8:20 am

I think the point has been made. Quarantine, quarantine, and quarantine. Ask your dealer how long the fish have been in the country before buying the thing in the first place! 6 weeks in summer is a minimum, over winter a minimum. Basically until water temps are consistently above 22 for at least 6 weeks the Koi CANNOT be said to be quarantined, in my opinion only of course. You are free to buy Koi from whomever you like!

Ulceration occurs generally once the bacteria is already in the blood stream - septicemia if you like which is why it is good idea to remove the Koi and why it can take such a long time to present symptoms we can see. i.e. it is not an 'outwards in' thing, it is an 'inwards out' thing. Opportunistic infections as a result of a wound are rare and should be in healthy ponds where the bacterial load in the water stream itself is low. Hydrophila is common - we find it all the time in fish from Japan.

Aeromonas levels should be zero in a Koi pond. Bao Bio Koi for instance is one very easy way to ensure this. Experience indicates that clean filters keep aeromonas populations down. My instinct is that sand filters are havens for aeromonas - but that's just me. I have never seen aeromonas on any Koi pond using low pressure filtration and effective daily sludge removal. Not once.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Colin Hunt

Colin Hunt

Posts : 285
Reputation : 22
Join date : 2010-02-16
Age : 64
Location : TYGERBERG HILLS

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 09, 2011 8:41 am

Thanks William, I have no doubt you are correct in what you are saying and I have learnt a very valuable lesson and a very stressful one as well.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Neli

Neli

Posts : 1000
Reputation : 50
Join date : 2011-04-03
Age : 103
Location : Lusaka Zambia

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSat Feb 18, 2012 12:40 pm

Hi Colin! We were together when U bought most of your fish in May...At one place I was not happy with the QT facility...Did not see any filtration, and though that time I did not understand it too well, now I do...
I believe a QT should have filtration...Am I correct or not?
Keeping many Koi in unfiltered small pond can create problems...IMHO.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Colin Hunt

Colin Hunt

Posts : 285
Reputation : 22
Join date : 2010-02-16
Age : 64
Location : TYGERBERG HILLS

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSat Feb 18, 2012 5:47 pm

Neli, those fish you are referring to were purchased May 2011. The fish that were sick were purchased the previous year and I can assure you non of the fish came from the dealer you are referring to.

I know of several dealers that quarantine in holding ponds or vats with good aeration and regular water changes with great success. The green water is not bad water, in fact it is very good for the Koi.

I have not yet had any problems from the dealer you are referring to. Always good quality, healthy fish.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Neli

Neli

Posts : 1000
Reputation : 50
Join date : 2011-04-03
Age : 103
Location : Lusaka Zambia

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSat Feb 18, 2012 6:48 pm

Thanks colin!
I always hear about QT and filter...I dont know for sure ...can it be that good for Koi...for a month, so many of them in a small pond...stressed from the travel...I imagined it might be better with a filter...
But what do i know...just keep receiving news through the back door....
Back to top Go down
View user profile
costa j

costa j

Posts : 421
Reputation : 55
Join date : 2011-04-12
Age : 65
Location : Johannesburg Walkerville Tel 0826428718

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSat Feb 18, 2012 7:34 pm

Mad Mad Nelli,I suggest you get your facts straight before you open your big MOUTH. You want to say something call the person face to face, and not make inacurate remarks. Mad Mad Mad
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Neli

Neli

Posts : 1000
Reputation : 50
Join date : 2011-04-03
Age : 103
Location : Lusaka Zambia

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSat Feb 18, 2012 9:31 pm

costa j wrote:
Mad Mad Nelli,I suggest you get your facts straight before you open your big MOUTH. You want to say something call the person face to face, and not make inacurate remarks. Mad Mad Mad
Costa, are u upset with something? I mean something apart from this?
Because I was simply making observations, and asking questions. Those questions were based on the experience I had with my QT when I brought my fish from SA, and the observations U people made:
That I am having problems because I have no filtration
and that my QT is too small.
So my question was based on this reasoning.
If U have some other problems, please dont take them out on me...I am not part of all the mess!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
costa j

costa j

Posts : 421
Reputation : 55
Join date : 2011-04-12
Age : 65
Location : Johannesburg Walkerville Tel 0826428718

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 7:18 am


Nelli, If you stayed with your QT setup and it's subsequent problems, it is none of my business. The fact that you have implied that other dealers are unscrupulous in their QT methods and although, not mentioning me by name, we all know who Colin bought fish from. This upsets me and makes me very angry!
Your remarks are uncalled for and from your post you have insinuated that I am responsible for selling sick fish. My reputation and code of ethics is very important to me as well as peace of mind, trust and satisfaction from my customers.
I have been going to Japan and importing koi for the last 13 years, twice a year. My expertise , experiance and knowledge of koikeeping have stood me in good stead. GOD willing, I have never had KHV or any other koi diseases that I have passed onto my customers.
For this reason, I have taken exception to your remarks which can potentially affect my business in a negative way.
I would appriciate it if you apologised.

Costa.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Neli

Neli

Posts : 1000
Reputation : 50
Join date : 2011-04-03
Age : 103
Location : Lusaka Zambia

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 8:03 am

costa j wrote:

Nelli, If you stayed with your QT setup and it's subsequent problems, it is none of my business. The fact that you have implied
Where do U see such implications here?
I always hear about QT and filter...I dont know for sure ...can it be that good for Koi...for a month, so many of them in a small pond...stressed from the travel...I imagined it might be better with a filter...
But what do i know...just keep receiving news through the back door....
That is a simple question...

that other dealers are unscrupulous
I never used the word unscrupulous, or other dealers...Just asked if it is OK and can that be a problem since I wanted to know for the future. I might need to do the same
in their QT methods and although, not mentioning me by name, we all know who Colin bought fish from.
Colin did not buy fish from U only This upsets me and makes me very angry!
I think this is not the real reason U are upset! But U should know better what realy U are upset with.
I am just an easy pray for U to take your anger on.I would tell U one thing: being uncivilized, rude offensive, will not solve your problems

Your remarks are uncalled for and from your post you have insinuated that I am responsible for selling sick fish. My reputation and code of ethics is very important to me as well as peace of mind, trust and satisfaction from my customers.
I did not insinuate anything....U are just having a complex at the moment, that everyone is insinuating thing about U! Is it my post really that upset U or Davids?And U can not complain about his post, for U know it is the truth...
I have been going to Japan and importing koi for the last 13 years, twice a year. My expertise , experiance and knowledge of koikeeping have stood me in good stead. GOD willing, I have never had KHV or any other koi diseases that I have passed onto my customers.
For this reason, I have taken exception to your remarks which can potentially affect my business in a negative way.
I would appriciate it if you apologised.

Costa.
I have no intention of apologizing for things U got offended over due to your insecurities!
U are blowing things out of proportions again!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
costa j

costa j

Posts : 421
Reputation : 55
Join date : 2011-04-12
Age : 65
Location : Johannesburg Walkerville Tel 0826428718

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 8:21 am


I haven't seen Davids post. What are you referring to, where is his post? I am not insecure about anything, but it is clear you have some personal issues with me, An ongoing verbal war is not what this forum is about so I will refrain from responding to your comments.

You are quite correct , it is your post and you can say what you like but please leave me out of your discussions, whether by name or insuation. I consider this matter closed.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Neli

Neli

Posts : 1000
Reputation : 50
Join date : 2011-04-03
Age : 103
Location : Lusaka Zambia

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 8:45 am

Here is David's post:
http://koionline.forumotion.com/t2832-list-you-koi-past-2-years#19289
and I think another thing (IMHO) that might have upset U is that I asked everyone affected with KHV to post a list of the dealers he bought fish in the last few month...Just my imagination again, it might not be true.
We need to know!
We need to be protected.It appears to me is that only businesses are protected now.Again I am not insinuating that dealers are hiding in order to sale Us sick fish...I dont think they will do that deliberately.And I know they will do everything possible to make sure they eradicate it and dont get it again.I also understand why they are hiding=bad for business.But it should not be like that! It can happen to anyone, and no one asks for it.People should be educated , informed so We can feel more secure buying Koi. A test for KHV is less than 500 rand...how hard it is for a dealer to test his consignment and show the test to a customer? Only good can come out of it.
I dont want disaster in my pond...it will affect me badly.
Since no dealer is admitting anything, and SAKKS is not giving Us any info, I would like to know if there is a common denominator, which again will amount to speculations...but in this case the secrecy should be blamed and not the person concluding..
If in the first place the dealer was honest and told Us that He had KHV, and is dealing with it (which is not hard to accomplish) I would trust that dealer in the future 100%.
This secrecy breeds rumors, speculations and wrong conclusions.
Many dealers had KHV, and are in business today.
KHV should not carry stigma. Secrecy is worse for it amounts to dishonesty.
So who ever that dealer is let him be honest and tell Us. It will only establish mutual trust, and trust in the industry..
I think now the whole industry is affected for if people dont know where the source is and how it is dealt with, they will not buy from any one.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
costa j

costa j

Posts : 421
Reputation : 55
Join date : 2011-04-12
Age : 65
Location : Johannesburg Walkerville Tel 0826428718

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 9:56 am


Nelli, I agree with you 100% the dealer with KHV should admit that he has it, 90% of the hobbyists on the koi4u forum have bought fish from me in the last 4 months, and all their fish are fine. I also send KHV TESTS away for every shipment from Japan.
So should they all not have problems as well.?
I also aknowleged on the other forum that David had bought fish from me, so your statement that I should be upset about David's post is untrue.
Back to my orignal post I still take exception to being refered to as a dealer with poor QT facilaties. It was not about who has given David KHV. None of us know his circumstances or Nevill's for that matter.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Neli

Neli

Posts : 1000
Reputation : 50
Join date : 2011-04-03
Age : 103
Location : Lusaka Zambia

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 10:47 am

I never referred to U as a dealer with poor QT facility or to U as individual...
Simply asked if a QT without a filter can cause a problem? Wanted to know! Thats why asked...and to avoid insinuations I did not mention any names!
I would like U to tell me if U dont mind, if Nev bought Koi from U in the last 3 month...Just curious.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
costa j

costa j

Posts : 421
Reputation : 55
Join date : 2011-04-12
Age : 65
Location : Johannesburg Walkerville Tel 0826428718

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 11:06 am


Nelli, A QT pond without a filter is not a problem at all , as long as you are on top of it , My water is very very good at the farm and they get 70% water change every 2nd day. Plus a filter wont work on my QT ponds because I'm medicating and stressing the fish to send away for the KHV tests, so you will never build any bacteria in your filters.

And to your second Question, Neville has not bought fish from me for over a year now.

Costa.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Neli

Neli

Posts : 1000
Reputation : 50
Join date : 2011-04-03
Age : 103
Location : Lusaka Zambia

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 1:14 pm

Thank U!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
costa j

costa j

Posts : 421
Reputation : 55
Join date : 2011-04-12
Age : 65
Location : Johannesburg Walkerville Tel 0826428718

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 1:31 pm



Pleasure.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Admin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2521
Reputation : 46
Join date : 2007-07-25
Age : 57
Location : Cape Town

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 2:11 pm

Please keep it clean, play the ball and not the man (...or woman) and please keep to the facts(which you are able to prove)

_________________
Paul Viljoen
E Mail: koi@absamail.co.za ; http://www.koionline.co.za

Koi are not my whole life but make my life whole
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.koionline.co.za
wayneb

wayneb

Posts : 1745
Reputation : 29
Join date : 2007-12-08
Age : 41
Location : Kraai Fontein, Cape Town Metropol

To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 19, 2012 3:26 pm

Costa, thank you for your openess. Atleast its one dealer we can tick off as clean.

I can concur that i have bought from Costa in the past and he has sent me the KHV certificates via email for every fish, so that is very true.

Costa, what is your procedure if you find a batch testing possitive. Yes, kill the batch but i assume you have to notify the prepaid people about it and the farm it came from...? This question is just for interest sake.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Http://www.KoiAdventures.co.za
Sponsored content




To Hell and back... Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Hell and back...   To Hell and back... Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 

To Hell and back...

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

 Similar topics

-
» Hello from Nowhere Nebraska
» Soft water in the yard? (Smacking forhead)
» Bugs with tiny scissors?
» Work First, Play Second
» CAR UK MOT and ROAD TAX RUNNING OUT!

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Koi Forum :: Koi health and diseases :: KHV-