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 Doitsu Kujaku

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sas



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PostSubject: Doitsu Kujaku   Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:28 pm



Not good or very bad quality???
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:55 pm

This is what i would call Petshop Koi's.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and someone at a petshop might like it but i don't think any serious koi keeper will buy them.

Some notes:

1. The one fish has a gill problem or something...in japan most breeders would have culled it as they are very strict on gills.
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sas



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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:36 am

Thanks for your reply,

I agree with you that they are not good quality.

But, i paid very little to buy those koi, so i am not expecting too much from them.
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:40 am

Hi sas,

How about this one I bred myself ?
Not the best picture sorry.

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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:51 am



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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:58 am

Not bad, bot Bad at all...you may now move to japan and call yourself a breeder. Smile
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:59 am

bot??? Whats going on with my fingers today?
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:05 am

Sass, the bodyshape is very bad for a small koi. The patterns unbalanced, The white is not pure, the head(very important when it comes to Kujaku) is not clear, and the lustre is poor.


Compare it to one of my average Doitsu Kujaku's of almost the same size:



(Also not a perfect example but much better)

Kujaku, being a metallic, is mainly judged by the lustre and quality of shine, but also the pattern, scales, and it is important that it has a clean head.

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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:53 am

Paul, that is a very nice looking koi.

The pic by SAS : The raised gills on the one koi is that because of a problem with the gills or does it appear raised because of the narrow body shape of the koi.

I have no metallic koi in my pond, maybe i should get some.

Wayne
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:01 am

Thanks for your reply,

You have very nice Doitsu Kujaku. (I guess it is Doitsu Kujaku from Chogoro???)

Your Doitsu Kujaku is much better than my one Embarassed , but since i paid very little money for my Doitsu Kujaku, so i guess i can't require too much from it...

Admin wrote:
Sass, the bodyshape is very bad for a small koi. The patterns unbalanced, The white is not pure, the head(very important when it comes to Kujaku) is not clear, and the lustre is poor.


Compare it to one of my average Doitsu Kujaku's of almost the same size:



(Also not a perfect example but much better)

Kujaku, being a metallic, is mainly judged by the lustre and quality of shine, but also the pattern, scales, and it is important that it has a clean head.
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:07 am

Hi Jaco,

Your self bred Doitsu Kujaku is very nice, how old is she now? And how big?

Jaco wrote:
Hi sas,

How about this one I bred myself ?
Not the best picture sorry.

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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:09 am

The pic was taken almost two years ago.
Now she is about 60cm 3 years old
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:13 am

Hi Wayneb,

I also notice the gill problem when i buy them, but this is the only Doitsu Kujaku the dealer have. Since they are going for very cheap, so i just buy them to add some metallic color to my pond.

By i completely agree with you that this is pet shop quality koi.

wayneb wrote:
Paul, that is a very nice looking koi.

The pic by SAS : The raised gills on the one koi is that because of a problem with the gills or does it appear raised because of the narrow body shape of the koi.

I have no metallic koi in my pond, maybe i should get some.

Wayne
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:15 am

Jaco wrote:
The pic was taken almost two years ago.
Now she is about 60cm 3 years old

Whose the parent of she?

Do you have pic. of the parent?

Was the parent import from Japan?
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:25 am

I personally love the metallics. They stand out in the pond so much more.

For example, look at the the same Kujaku with a metallic Sanke(Heisei Nishiki) against the Showa and especially the black Haijiro.



I believe the gills look raised on the Kujaku's of Sass because of the big head in relation to the body. (sometimes Gill infection) This is often caused by overcrouding of small fish resulting in malnitrition, but sometimes it is caused by a bacterial infection.

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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:32 am

sas,
Here is a picture of the parents as Tosai when I got them, both from Japan.


The female when I sold her and sadly regret today.


The above Kujaku as Tosai at about 25cm, the top one in the picture.
The other is also from the same spawning.
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PostSubject: RE:   Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:40 pm

Jaco wrote:
sas,
Here is a picture of the parents as Tosai when I got them, both from Japan.


The female when I sold her and sadly regret today.


The above Kujaku as Tosai at about 25cm, the top one in the picture.
The other is also from the same spawning.

Your parent koi are very nice, how big and how old were them at frist time you use them for breeding?
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:49 pm

They were three years old when I bred with them the first time.
About 60+cm.
The male Kujaku is over 75cm now and growing, very good spawner.
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:34 pm

Lucky me!!!!!

Here is the female, she is now 78cm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sakoi/59278972/


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PostSubject: Bling your pond, Wayne   Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:11 am

wayneb wrote:

I have no metallic koi in my pond, maybe i should get some.

Wayne
Hi Wayne

In my view a pond without bling, is like a woman without at least one diamond a total disaster and complete abnormality.
Razz

Seriously, invest in a good quality one - you won't be sorry.

Regards
Rezanne
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PostSubject: They cost exactly the same to maintain   Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:22 am

sas wrote:
Hi Wayneb,

I also notice the gill problem when i buy them, but this is the only Doitsu Kujaku the dealer have. Since they are going for very cheap, so i just buy them to add some metallic color to my pond.



Hi Sas,
The main thing to remember is that although you got the Koi cheaply, they take up exactly the same space in your pond as good quality Koi and they consume exactly the same volume of food.

So, cheap becomes expensive in the long run as they will not (really) appreciate in cost that's is you want to sell them at some stage.

My point of view is to wait until I can purchase good quality Koi rather than to spend a few pennies of a fish that most probably will be culled sometime down the line to free up space in a pond.

It can be annoying to wait to buy a Koi, but in the end it is well worth it.

Enjoy your Koi
Rezanne


Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:45 am

Rezanne wrote:
sas wrote:
Hi Wayneb,

I also notice the gill problem when i buy them, but this is the only Doitsu Kujaku the dealer have. Since they are going for very cheap, so i just buy them to add some metallic color to my pond.



Hi Sas,
The main thing to remember is that although you got the Koi cheaply, they take up exactly the same space in your pond as good quality Koi and they consume exactly the same volume of food.

So, cheap becomes expensive in the long run as they will not (really) appreciate in cost that's is you want to sell them at some stage.

My point of view is to wait until I can purchase good quality Koi rather than to spend a few pennies of a fish that most probably will be culled sometime down the line to free up space in a pond.

It can be annoying to wait to buy a Koi, but in the end it is well worth it.

Enjoy your Koi
Rezanne


Very Happy

Hi! Rezanne,

Thanks for your advice Embarassed, i will start saving money now and but a nice Doitsu Kujaku in the future. Very Happy But in South Africa, i don't see many second hand koi selling or buying happening. Seems like there is no second hand koi market in SA. Or maybe it's happening but just don't notice it???

To me, it seems like koi keepers in SA are diffrent from koi keeper in Asia. SA koi keepers are more careful about KHV. So, they are not willing to buy from an unknow koi keeper, even the koi is in very high quality and at a very low price. (i.e. The only people who are willing to buy "high quality low priced" koi from an unknow koi keeper is those who want to enter the koi in a show immediately after they bought that koi.)

Or, maybe i am wrong. Because i haven't been in SA long enough, so i am not sure how the second hand koi market in SA works...

SAS
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:48 am

sas,
I think second hand koi are mostly bought by beginners who wants big koi from the start.
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:58 am

Jaco wrote:
sas,
I think second hand koi are mostly bought by beginners who wants big koi from the start.

Hi Jaco,

I would like to ask your opinion on the following question:

Fro example, if i am able to breed some very high quality tategoi Go-Sanke of +-15cm (Japanese Quality), and i am a unknow breeder or unknow koi keeper in SA. (i.e. Tategoi Go-Sanke of +-15cm most of the time don't show very good colour at this size.) Is it true that i will have great difficulty selling them to the local koi keeper??? Because simply people just don't know me and don't trust me???

SAS
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PostSubject: Re: Doitsu Kujaku   Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:03 am

Like you said, it all depends on price, people are more prepared to take a chance with a nice cheap koi than a good expensive koi.
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