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 My Showa's fin

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Jack Bach



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PostSubject: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 1:01 pm

I recently got this Showa and placed it in QT. A month later I moved it to my main pond, and a few weeks later detected a problem with it's left pectoril fin.
I treated the fin with a salt paste, and returned it to the pond. A few days later I noticed that it had started isolating itself in a secluded corner of the pond, and then moved it back to QT pond, after spraying the fin with Terramycin. The salt level was increased to .4%. I've noticed that the fleshy part of the body adjacent to the fin is also inflamed.
Any advice?
Pics taken 12 June
My Showa's fin DSC04344
My Showa's fin DSC04341
Pics taken today, 22 June
My Showa's fin DSC04360
My Showa's fin DSC04359
Other fins seem fine
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Chris Maritz

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 1:07 pm

Antibiotic injection now before the underlying ulcer on the body forms a hole which will leave a scar.
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Jaco

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 1:24 pm

Very bad, should be kept in a heated pond to recover or it will die.
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 2:51 pm

Anti Biotics in this cold weather probably wont work or work very slow.

Terramycin I dont like, I would rather smear it with PP paste, and cover with antibiotic powder. Carefull trimming will also help.

Maar waar is die dam Dr. nou, (maak seker n sandfilter skoon).
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Pieter J de Villiers

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 2:58 pm

Hi Jack,

Sal jou skakel!

Ek sien party mense is sommer baie groot bek nadat hulle 'n paar uur in die "kliek" se geselsskap was..............moerse slim ook skielik geek

Quote :
.........being an 'asshole' must be a highly sort after job, there are so many around
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 5:15 pm

Gaan leer spel Doc. Sarkasme pas jou glad nie, jy F@k dit op.
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Pieter J de Villiers

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 6:14 pm

My Showa's fin 0215-04-17-2009
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Jack Bach



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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 6:44 pm

Hi, and thanks for the replies. The advice was rather disconcerting, so I took the Showa to a vet at Onderstepoort. The following was done:
Skin scrape and gill clip - no parasites found.
Diagnosed were:
Petechial Question haemorrhages on gills and belly.
Swollen bruised lesion behind left pectoril fin.
Injected with 1 ml Nuflor and 0.5ml Vitamin C.

Need to return on Friday for 2nd antibiotic injection.

I also checked the water in my QT pond, and all seems to be OK.
pH > 8.2
Nitrite > 0.0-0.1mg
Ammonia > 0-0.1mg

Raising water temp, as suggested by Jaco: Any suggestions as to how to do this? I have the QT pond with about 2000l in it - above ground PVC (as the vats at shows). I tested the temp today, but I think it could be faulty - reading 10 degrees. Would a PVC cover on top of the net help? More frequent water changes with borehole water, which is warmer than pond water currently?
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frans

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 7:35 pm

A petechia (pronounced /pɨˈtiːkiə/, plural petechiae /pɨˈtiːkɪ.iː/) is a small (1-2mm) red or purple spot on the body, caused by a minor hemorrhage (broken capillary blood vessels
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Jaco

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Yes covering the pond with plastic will help a lot, leave an area open to breath.
WOW Frans, ek is beindruk lol
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 11:32 pm

Hi Jack

Thanks for giving us the real experts findings, much apreciated. Sure we can take note. Please tell us again on Friday. Looking again the fish does not look good at all, in a way happy you took it there. Hope it pulls through ok.
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Marius Bezuidenhout

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 12:32 am

Hey Jack

I think you are on the right track. I had the same problem as you and got some brilliant advice on the forum. Surely it helped alot and will never forget about the helpful info on the forum and the fish I could save but the important part is to remember to get down to the problem and use the correct medicine that will be effective for that fish.

I had many problems for some time but been lucky the last few months. Some times it to late to do anything about it but I hope you have good luck and that the Koi will be happyy again soon
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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 10:04 am

Jack Bach wrote:
I took the Showa to a vet at Onderstepoort.

Hi Jack, as a matter of interest, how much did you pay?

To raise your temperature, you could consider bying some bubblewrap and put it around the sides of the porta pool. It makes a big difference and are cheap @ approximately R 40 / 30 meters. You can also use it on the surface of the water because it floats. Trapped air is one of the best isolations.

You could also consider building yourself a small temporary hot house with those plastic specifically for hot houses. I once made one from an old gazebo frame and inserted a few 300 watt aquarium heaters. Amazing how you can raise the water temperature with a small hot house even in winter.

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Pieter J de Villiers

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 10:20 am

Hi,

First of all there are not many Vets that specialize in fish in South Africa.

Dr. Neville Marias was one of the few that did, but sadly he retired about a year ago.

Florphenicol (Nuflor) is from the same spectrum as Chloramphenicol ( Frequently used in case of ascites) but is oil based, itís really slow to release from the oil, therefore we can use a mush greater dose and use as a one shot approach or one weekly shot ( Nuflor 30% or 300mg/ml)
Chloramphenicol ( Globenicol) is an effective antibiotic with a broad spectrum.
Nuflor should not be injected into the pectoral muscle, it will cause localized necrosis.

I am afraid and of the opinion that without taking a blood sample of Jackís Koi, and by using Nuflor some guessing took place with its treatment.

I really hope the Koi will survive.


PS. This is only my unprofessional view, so please keep the panties dry!
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David Coetzee

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 11:57 am

yes pieter, dr marais retired, but dr paul elshove is still there,
the few times i have needed help paul assisted.
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Jack Bach



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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 7:25 pm

Some feedback:
The water temp in my QT is 10 degrees.
Taking Paul and Jaco's advice, I am trying to insulate the QT pond. Got some of that silver isotherm insulation ( that they use in ceilings ) and covered the sides of the pond late this afternoon, and put a cover on top of the pond net tonight, leaving about 10% open. Will open in the morning and close again later, and see if the temp increases, because the day temps in the north of PTA are quite pleasant. The QT pond is in the sun all day.
The Showa is still very lively, swimming with the 3 other fish.
Back to Vet on Friday, and I will let you know about developments. Should you have any questions that I should ask the vet, then please let me know.
My pond is 11 months old and this is the first experience of this magnitude - relating to koi keeping - that I have had...still so much to learn!
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 11:52 pm

Yes Jack,
I suppose one never stops learning.

I am just curios to know what the reasons are for this, why does it happen.
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Jack Bach



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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeSun Jun 27, 2010 12:27 pm

I went back to Onderstepoort on Friday. No improvement, and another antibiotic injection administered. Need to take fish again tomorrow (Monday). Starting to have doubts about the prognosis.
Showa is still very lively in the pond.
Elsewhere on the Forum I read that efficacy of antibiotics while the water is very cold is minimised.
Any other suggestions?
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeSun Jun 27, 2010 6:16 pm

Hi Jack,

Yes, I posted that, antibiotics works very slow in in very cold conditions.

You will just have to warm up the water by using a proper water heater.
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Jack Bach



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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2010 10:45 am

It has been suggested that I heat the water in the QT pond to assist in the recovery of the Showa. Ultrazap have a 2000W heater, but I have some technical questions:
The heater must not run dry, but is a flow of between 40 - 50lpm sufficient for a heater that has been designed to ALLOW a flowrate of between 180 - 200lpm?
I have partially covered the pond with 'bubble wrap'. The daytime pond temp moves up to 12/13 degrees, but by the morning it has returned to 10 degrees. At night I wrap isotherm (aluminium) bubble insulation around the side of the pond to try and retain the gained increase in temperature, but this doesn't seem to be working.
Perhaps I should have posted under 'equipment' section, so please feel free to move it Admin.
Regards
Jack
PS Back to Vet at 11:30
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2010 2:07 pm

Hi Jack,

I have never installed one, but do know of one that has just melted due to a zero flow rate. I am sure, and have just confirmed with the supplier that as long as there is positive flow it will be fine. They suggest that you increase the thermostat setting gradually though.

I think the OAT's is just too low at present for the wrapping to help.
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Jack Bach



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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2010 3:27 pm

I've had the Showa at the Vet, but didn't have much time to discuss issues with her. The fins seem less inflamed, and the swelling of the muscle at the base of the pectoril fin has subsided a little. She wasn't quite happy with the effect of the Nuflor antibiotic thusfar, so changed to .6ml Taziject Question
Have to go back on Thursday morning.
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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2010 3:47 pm

Jack I use the 3kw Ultra Zapp heater and easily heat 8000L to 18c with cover on the pond. Going to cost you a bit.
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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2010 4:43 pm

Jack, why not just get the element that comes in a geyser and cover it inside the pond with a 50mm pvc pipe. Its the same element guys buy for Jacuzzi's etc. The element i think is something like R150 and it should work pretty well if it can heat up a jacuzzi.
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PostSubject: Re: My Showa's fin   My Showa's fin Icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2010 4:50 pm

there's a way that they actually put the element into a 50mm pvc pipe and as the water flows past the element and heats up enroute to the pond....I'm sure it's a cheaper solution...altho the lights bill will be abit on the pricy side
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