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stumble



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PostSubject: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeTue Apr 27, 2010 7:56 pm

Is it possible to have too much oxygen in the pond with too many airstones, oxygen plates, venturi etc Question
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeTue Apr 27, 2010 8:05 pm

Never Stumbe never. Lol Especially in summer
I am also in the process of adding another 140l airpump
Not a venturi fan though. affraid
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stumble



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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeTue Apr 27, 2010 8:13 pm

Thanks Bobby. I'm using the Hap- 120 and then decided to get another one, and today got 2 air disks as well, but worried it might be too much. They actually bubble the water so much it looks like its boiling. lol Surprised

So I have one venturi, 3 airstones deep in the pond, two in the bio, and now will add two air disks to the pond. Just worried it might be too much scratch
I dont have a diffuser though.. so trying to make up.

oh - the venturi is not very deep - its about 20cm down. I know they shouldnt be too deep.
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeTue Apr 27, 2010 8:16 pm

should I lose the venturi Question
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeTue Apr 27, 2010 8:40 pm

Hi Stumble,
Yes lose the venturi or place it above water level.

Those airstone discs clog up easy. I replaced mine with 60mm balls. seems better.

O, and no, you cannot have too much air.
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeTue Apr 27, 2010 9:45 pm

Thanks Neville. Whats the reason?? (about the venturi)

Also what do I need to test the oxygen levels?
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeTue Apr 27, 2010 10:01 pm

You get a oxygen test kit. The Hanna meter that measures the the water saturation is a very good but expensive tool.

I will be running x 3 140l air pumps and I see hobbyist in Durban are using 6-8 Air pumps depending on pond size.

I have seen hobbyist in Cape Town install pipework to create an air curtain that will give you more control over bubbles than individual air stones.

My air pumps is working off bottom drains diffusers.
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stumble



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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeTue Apr 27, 2010 10:54 pm

Thanks Bobby. Did you see Karl's air curtain? Really impressive.
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeTue Apr 27, 2010 11:12 pm

Has any of you guys ever got into your ponds with all your equipment running and then blow your breath out and sink to the bottom ... and LISTEN ?

You should.
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PostSubject: Oxygen and airpumps / diffusers   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 6:39 am

I could be wrong here, but this is what I have heard:
Water (H2O) is a molecule made up of 2 x Hydrogen and 1 x Oxygen atom....and extra oxygen cannot be added to this structure through an airpump.
An airpump with diffuser / airstone placed in the pond aids in pond water circulation, moving dormant water to the surface and improving the overall condition of your water. Additionally, extra oxygen is only added by the resultant movement on the surface and exposure to the atmosphere.
I believe that too many airpumps - creating a jacuzzi effect can not be conducive to a koi's well-being. I want to enjoy my koi by seeing them (even in passing) without having to assume that they are there and OK.
I'm not a scientist, so if this statement is inaccurate, please delete it Mr Moderator / Administrator.
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 8:03 am

I suppose measuring the water oxygen content before and after running or adding the gadgets will provide the answer Exclamation

I agree that it spoils the vieving pleasure when running, the airpumps can tempory be turned off, the alternate could be to install a window and you can have the viewing and oxygen running.

At the same time you can observe them enjoying the noise that is been referred to Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 9:20 am

Hi Jack

You are correct with what you say in your tread. You have to reach a saturation point. I suppose it is more for the guys who want to force grow their fish. For us normal hobyists an airstone in a poorly circulated area and maybe in the biofilter is fine.
I had to add a airstone in a quiet corner and my fish was spooked for nearly 2 weeks. I think what Colyn says is also quite correct.
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 9:49 am

Hi Stumble

You can try this gent, I was concerned at some stage when I only had one return to my pond creating a bit of oxygen and he came out with a tester and tested my oxygen. At that stage it was already at saturation point. Sure today I have more and bigger fish, but I have increased my returns to pond 5x and things seem fine.

Hope he still answers this no his co was called, Amanzitech
0761254838 his name is Mark. Best of luck
PS. well he does and he is going to send me his latest brochure, I will try and post it here.
His oxygen tester goes for around R4500.00
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 9:55 am

I have 3 returns to my pond (unfortunately underwater) and one return via rock feature.
I've heard the oxygen in the water is not from the airstones, but rather the amount of air/water contact, same as the surface area, and airstones just help to increase the contact time and the tumbling effect of rock feature returns helps as well. Yes i think the air stones help to move the water so there is no 'dead' spots.
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 10:18 am

Hi Stumble
Yes that is right the actual air does nothig but move the water from the bottom to the surface where it will collect oxygen.
Have you ever stood next to a river and noticed the water surface churning, That is natures way of collecting oxygen.
IMHO once you know your oxygen level, then you know it allways, excepting of course adverse circumstances
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 10:34 am

Hi Stumble
Yes it not the bubbles, it is the braking of the water surface and contact with the atmosphere like Jack has mentioned that adds the oxygen. Therefore an air curtain in my view is a better idea compared to the jacuzzi effect created by a single air-stone.

You have seen the results of a pond with plenty of Air pumps in operation, the exceptional Koi quality in this pond, the skin quality of the koi in this pond, the growth rate from this pond, the air curtain in operation and the standby oxygen should the saturation drop below 90% lol!

IMO temperature has a severe effect on oxygen levels.
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 2:30 pm

Hi Stumble,

As I have said it 's "horses for course" if you want extra growth an a bit more lustre, you can have it, but it comes at a price.
You have to decide where you want to go with your koi. Do you want a garden pond or a show pond.
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 6:06 pm

Hi,

Oxygen is one of the critical factors in koi health and growth. And there are lots of different ways to get oxygen into pond water.

The only way oxygen can be dissolved into water is through contact with the atmosphere. Following from this - bottom drains draw bottom water this is filtered and returned at the surface. Itís this interface with the atmosphere that gets oxygen into water.

So in a pond with bottom drains you have a downward flow of water. If the design dictated you could reverse this flow by pumping the water into the bottom of the pond so that it overflows to another pond or discharge box.

Another method of exposing water molecules to the atmosphere is to use air pumps and stones. The airs stones move the water from the floor towards the atmosphere. This principle is used in the show vats and works well.

The higher the temperature the less oxygen the water can hold.

The higher the altitude the less oxygen water can hold. On the highveldt (1700 m above seas level) there is about 20% less oxygen in our pond water.

With regarding Colyn's statement that one should dive down to the bottom and listen when the air diffusers are pumping away - it's quite frightening at the screaming noise you hear.

Venturies: This is an interesting subject. From personal experience I have found that fish health and appetite improve after venturies (which are returned under water) are removed.

This all has to do with air under pressure entering the water. The atmosphere is about 79% nitrogen and 20% oxygen and 1% other gasses. When you pump air under pressure into water you are not only pumping oxygen but mostly nitrogen. High levels of nitrogen are not well tolerated by fish. Air under pressure can also enter the pond water if you have an air leak on the suction line or at the pump. This air is sucked into the pump and forced into the water returning to the pond. Koi swimming there can easily get gas bubble disease and can suffer ill health (sluggishness and lack of appetite) because of the elevated nitrogen levels.

Donít forget that not only the fish need oxygen but the bacteria in the filter need lots of oxygen. Any organic material left to biodegrade in the pond o filter system will use some of the oxygen in the water and return ammonia into the pond. So get rid of any organic build up as soon as possible.

Chris
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 6:16 pm

Thank you Chris. That part I understand. Smile

Going back to the initial question - What are your views on having too much oxygen? or too many air stones etc?
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 8:52 pm

Hi,
Too much oxygen would imply that the oxygen levels are above saturation levels.

Any gas (mainly oxygen or nitrogen) above saturation level is bad. The supersaturated water will have a different pressure than inside the koi and gas bubble disease can occur.

It is also possible to go overboard. After all there must be a limit as to the number of air stones/diffusers on a pond to achieve saturation levels. After this you are wasting your money. Same thing with waterfalls and venturies. You only want to get to saturation levels or close to this.

Internally in a pond you also need circulation not only vertically but around the pond as well. This dissolves the oxygen throughout the pond and also dissolves the ammonia into the total volume of the pond.

You only need masses of air stones and high waterfall turnover rates for high stocking densities. If the stocking densities are reasonable then you can maintain high levels of dissolved oxygen all the time and throughout the pond system without adding more and more air sources.

So if you want to spend a lot of money on an oxygen meter thatís OK. But you will find you will probably only use it a few times and then get a feel for what is happening in your pond. You can see oxygen rich water it sparkles.

I hope this answers your questions.

Chris
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PostSubject: Re: Oxygen   Oxygen Icon_minitimeWed Apr 28, 2010 10:36 pm

Hi Chris,

Thanks.
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