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 Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm

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Quinton Jones

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Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Empty
PostSubject: Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm   Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Icon_minitimeFri Mar 12, 2010 9:44 pm

Gents this highlights to me how much things change - great example of how we might give ugly ducklings away, when they could be swans!!

1year old
Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Koidevelopmenttosai
8y old
Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Koidevelopment8y
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Quinton Jones

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PostSubject: utsuri - who would have known   Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Icon_minitimeFri Mar 12, 2010 9:55 pm

Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Utsuridevelopment2

Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Utsuridevelopment
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bobby

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Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Empty
PostSubject: Re: Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm   Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Icon_minitimeFri Mar 12, 2010 9:58 pm

Amazing Quinton, It gives me hope for my Hi Utsuri cheers
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Quinton Jones

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Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Empty
PostSubject: Utsuri   Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Icon_minitimeFri Mar 12, 2010 10:15 pm

i was very surprised - often you expect to see the potential even when young. in this case of the the utsuri - you could see the white was fine - the sumi reallly was a gamble.
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wayneb

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Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Empty
PostSubject: Re: Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm   Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Icon_minitimeSat Mar 13, 2010 12:03 am

Quote :
great example of how we might give ugly ducklings away, when they could be swans!!

I have come to the same conclusion recently...We tend to do away with the koi before it has even starts to show us its potential.

I think 90% of the time the sumi pattern is a gamble on Shiro Utsuri (SU) but not the sumi itself.

I have learned a few things specificly regarding the Omosako SU bloodlines but maybe it can be applied to other SU bloodlines aswell.

(1) On SU the sumi finishes first on the tail, then the head and then the on the shoulders. So if you have a SU with the black up and stunning and finished on the shoulders but still underlying on the head...then give that koi a skip as chances are that it will either never develop or you will wait years for it to surface. It might remain a tategoi (koi with potential) for the biggest part of its own life.

(2) As tosai SU should have 70% of its current visible sumi up and dark and not grey and underlying. If the koi appears mostly greyish its a gamble and rather give it a skip. As the SU ages between 2 and 3 the sumi that was up and dark will become more grey and it will start to move around. At this time is difficult to buy a SU and speculate on its future. So its better to buy SU either as tosai or as 4 years olds.

(3)Also if you want to see the quality of shiro the koi will have in later years then look at the white on the tailtube just before the fin. If the white appears yellow/cream there then the koi will develop to have the same shiro in later life. You want a bright white on the top of the tail tube.

(4) Sumi always becomes more on all koi variaties thats why Asagis, Chagois, Goromos and all other vairieties with melanin pigment cells becomes darker with age, even on kohakus you are likly to get shimis as the koi ages. Keep that in mind when looking for a SU. It can easily add 2/3 more sumi as it ages to what it currently has.

(5) Keep the sex of the SU in mind. A SU as tosai without any grey areas are most likely to be male and what you see is what you are going to get. SU males often also have yellow heads, take care to look if its the scull that you are seeing throught the transparent skin or whether is actually yellow skin caused by testosterone. Notice the SU below and the one above posted by quinton, both are female but had slight creamy heads as tosai.

Tosai
Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm 1

5 years
Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm 4
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Collin

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Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Empty
PostSubject: Re: Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm   Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Icon_minitimeSat Mar 13, 2010 9:22 am

QJones wrote:
i was very surprised - often you expect to see the potential even when young. in this case of the the utsuri - you could see the white was fine - the sumi reallly was a gamble.

Hi Q

The Sumi was never a gamble........you should buy tosai shiro if most of the sumi is still underling ................ in other words that is what a good shiro will look like at that age.
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm   Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Icon_minitimeSat Mar 13, 2010 12:02 pm

Quinton i suggest you go and read this document about Omosako. Its a very informative document.

Takayoshi Omosako gave a talk and this is a the summary. He discusses specifcly how the sumi of Omosako Shiro Utsuris develop depending on the Oyagoi used.

Somewhere else on the forum cant remember where a discussion was started regarding Colour Enhancer food and Shiro Utsuri.

At the talk the question was asked "As hobbyists we tend to have Shiro in the same pond as other variety. Please comment on feeding colour enhancing food such as spirulina."

Takayoshi Omosako wrote:
We do not recommend feeding any color enhancing food. Since we are specialized in Shiro Utsuri thus it is easy for us to control. We understand this challenge of most hobbyists. It is indeed a challenge for us too in producing our future Shiro Utsuri that can do well even with color food.
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Quinton Jones

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PostSubject: Utsuri   Showa at tosai vs showa at 8years - 25cm vs 91cm Icon_minitimeSat Mar 13, 2010 12:55 pm

Collin, just shows the importance of looking for a fish that has future rather than immediate potential.
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