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 Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?

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Cliff

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PostSubject: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:24 pm

Bought this Kohaku in December



less than a month later it is looking like this, bought it as one of the momotaro's from Pet Masters, phoned the guy there and he said it happens and that the hi will come back but i'm not convinced. I originally bought it because I thought there was more red to come out of it, thats what I thought if you look at the first 2 pics


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Cliff

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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:27 pm

Oh, and before you ask about water hardness, I have another kohaku from the same batch that I bought and the hi on that one is still fine, also have a slighter bigger kohaku which is also 100% fine with it's hi
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:29 pm

Hmm looks like you bleached it........
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:51 pm

Sorry Cliff, once red is gone then its gone forever. I have not heard of one case yet where red came back.
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:04 pm

Where /Are you feeding colour enhancer? In he 2nd picture the kois nose and head looks alot more yellow than the first.
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:06 pm

The red will never come back.

The indications were already there when you bought it. Pinkish blury areas around the hi pattern, saw teeth pattern, and a hi spot that already disappeared on the right hand side.

See http://koionline.forumotion.com/chat-koi-related-f33/why-do-koi-lose-its-red-t796.htm

What are the indications that a koi might lose it colours and might become a Shiro Muji? Some say that there are always warning signs, for instance indications on the head that red already pulled back (pink on the edge of the pattern). Some say if you can see white between the scales when you bend the fish, it will probably lose it's hi and obviously, sometimes you can see that all the patterns are starting to become pinkish. Some say that you should ensure that the hi on the whole body is the same colour when buying. Some say that a saw tooth pattern on the kiwa side is a clear indication.

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Cliff

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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:12 pm

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for your reply, basically I feed my fish up to 4 times a day, I feed in the morning, my domestic feeds a specific portion for lunch and I feed them when I get home at around 17h30 and then again just before I go to bed at around 22h00.

I feed them shogun and for the 17h30 daily I feed them Manda Fu. Also now and then and I give them a combination of seed loaf, garlic, mont clay and honey....but honestly since I bought the manda fu in december I have not does this combo for them. I got the kohaku on the 20th of December and started on the manda fu on the 26th, however my other kohaku's are fine
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Cliff

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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:17 pm

thanks Paul, I thought the pink was an indication that there was more hi to come out......the guy assisting me there said the same therefore me choosing that particular kohaku....altho selections were'nt much to go on.

Would I be unfair in asking them to replace the fish? Think I should seeing that the charge a hell of a lot more for these supposedly jap import's

let me know
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:16 pm

Gooi weg.
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:19 pm

spoke to them today and they said I can come past and they will sort something out for me........very happy with that!
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PostSubject: Fading Hi   Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:38 pm



Agree with Paul on the fading being present on sale it normally reflects as pink or yellow around the edging. (Highlighted the weak point i could see)Lots of tosai loose some of the original hi as they grow. In my experience it is not often an occurance with imports and happens more with local breeding where the genetics is not as strong. Hi always goes and sumi mostly develops, but can sometimes recede only to appear again later. I all likelyhood this fish will lose all hi within the next three months. Depending on what you paid and what was promised I would chat to the dealer again.
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:54 am

every one talks about hardness i have had koi in the same pond loose all the black and red have pics to prove it i think it comes down to luck of the draw no matter what every koi has an out come some are born to be winners and some just dont sorry for your lose
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:26 am

QJones wrote:
In my experience it is not often an occurance with imports and happens more with local breeding where the genetics is not as strong.

You never bought koi from me, don't include the word breeders in your statement.
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:37 am

I'am sorry Q,

I see you did not use the word breeders.
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PostSubject: Hi   Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:23 am

Jaco dont get me wrong, I am an avid supporter of local breeders and prefer achieving show accolades with local selected fish. I am more referring to fish bred locally without a strong genetic line - both backyard experimenting and local breeding without suitable quality stock.
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:27 am

Sorry, my mistake.
Will have to read posts more thoroughly next time. lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:18 pm

Hi,

Die kleur, veral Rooi en Geel op Koi kan nie gewaarborg word nie!
As 'n Koi sy kleur verloor is dit of geneties of as gevolg van stress.
Stress kan deur baie goed soos water gehalte, parasiete, hantering, water tempratuur
en pH veranderings veroorsaak word.

Ek het oor die jare, meestal Gosanke gehad wat hulle kleur verloor het, en almal behalwe een, was van Japan afkomstig.
Die enigste plaaslik geteelde Koi wat sy rooi verloor het, was as gevolg van stress ( insekdoder in kos)
Dus om te se dat plaaslike Koi eerder hulle rooi sal verloor is ongegrond, en onsin!
Verder is dit ook onredelik om die handelaar by wie die Koi gekoop was te blameer vir die verlies van kleur.
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:36 pm

For years I have sold local bred koi and a lot of them became Shiro Muji.

For the last four years, I import all my Koi from Japan and a very small percentage of them have lost its hi.

In view of my "personal" experience, I do not buy any local bred Go-Sanke for re-sale anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:54 pm

Quote :
In my experience it is not often an occurance with imports and happens more with local breeding where the genetics is not as strong.

Quote :
For years I have sold local bred koi and a lot of them became Shiro Muji.

This is very intrusting I think we need to look in to this matter further. We only import our brood stock from the best farms in Japan and we also have bread from this brood stock some koi that loss their Hi.

So I donít think it is the local breeding but just some thing that happens. We never guarantee the colour of a koi only the health. I think the only person that can guarantee a colour of a koi is God.

I was told by Mr Tarazo san that strong/fast moving current will take any Hi away, I have put this to the test in one of our ponds (12000L) we ad a pump that pumped 26000L\H and ad 10 akka muji and with in 3 months 90% of them was shiro muji.

I think this again relates to stress.

I learned in Japan if you would like to test the QT of Hi you must put the koi in a mud pond if the koi keeps it Hi for 3 years the Hi QT is very good.

A good example of this is Bobby's Mask Kohaku it spends 6 months in one of our mud ponds and the Hi only improved.

Food is not really a problem unless it is old and off.
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:42 pm

Hi all

Two koi keepers in East London have both had kohaku which have lost their Hi. Both of them had to put MG & F in their ponds. I wonder if the medicine also could have such an effect on kohaku?

Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:04 pm

Quote :
Both of them had to put MG & F in their ponds

Hi Roy

It is not the MG & F it is the stress that the medicine create
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PostSubject: About colours   Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:47 am

Speaking of colours. When a koi hatches and is strong gold with identical black markings on the sides, does it stay golden or does it turn brown after some time?
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:56 am

I forgot to say gold with very little black marking on the sides. Just a very thin stripe from head to tail. Sorry bout all the maybe dumb q's. I'm just an admirer - watching these fish has a very calming effect on me. And their interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:48 am

Without knowing the parents its impossible to say.
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PostSubject: Re: Will this kohaku ever get it's hi back?   Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:42 am

there were 4 males chasing the mother - i thought she was going to die afterwards. They were really all over her. I dont know if more than one male can fertilize the eggs but it looks like they can. The one father is a gold(metallic almost) gold with identical black markings - not strong black - on the sides. In 3 years he's grown to roughly 700mm. Dunno if that's good or bad. The mother is very strong red and black. The two colours are almost 50/50. Not one of her spawn however, has red(Hi?)in them. Some are orange and black but not 1 with red.
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