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 Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!

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Cliff

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PostSubject: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 10:48 am

I was wondering a while ago, when then breeders cull their fish, do you only euthenaize, or is it never a good idea to maybe dump them in a nearby dam.

I was always thinking if our dams had these unwanted fry in them it would satisfy most birds as they would leave most ponds alone and hunt in the dams alone, and the few that survive could only make the dams prettier.

What are your thoughts on dumping unwanted fry in dams!!!
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Marius Bezuidenhout

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 12:21 pm

This is what I think ….

People dumping Koi fish into local waterways could introduce yet another exotic species.

Koi is a species that can survive and reproduce and cause devastating harm to the native fish species, aquatic plant life, and the quality of water. A Koi can grow big and produce thousands of eggs; in contrast, a native trout may produce only 1,200 eggs.

Koi also may carry parasites and diseases not currently found in the dam which may be harmful.

Question is if it is legal to dump pet fish into dams?


Then again….

If common carp are already living in the dam, it would most probably make little difference to the ecology of the dam if somebody dumped a few Koi into it.
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Jaco

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 5:43 pm

It's a big NO,NO.
For the sake of the hobby it is better not do do that.
You have to be cruel to be kind.
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Collin

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 9:41 pm

It is due to the smart ideas that Cliff and Marius have that I had to sit for more then 2 years trying to find ways and reasons to submit to Government so that they don't ban koi in any form for ever in SA.

But then again you would not know that, as SAKKS made sure they took all the credit for you to have your koi. The only thing they had to do was to train (inform) there members about bio-diversity and if this is the result of that training then they failed horribly. But don't worry Cliff or Marius I know that they never even tried to train or in form there members’ because if they did you should see it every month in the KOISA as it is suppose to be ongoing.

So if you don't like the hobby then dump the koi in our dams and you will see how very quickly there won't be any more koi in SA.

Just remember 2 wrong's does not make 1 right.

Marius stick to your first statment Wink
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Marius Bezuidenhout

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 10:02 pm

Wise words Collin. I agree. I am new to this Koi thing but to me it is like letting Frankenstein loose on the streets. The one eye monsters with funny colours and missing fins (culling) don’t belong in nature. Cruel but true.
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Jan

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeMon Dec 07, 2009 7:20 am

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Cliff

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeMon Dec 07, 2009 8:40 am

Hi Collin, was more a question than an idea.....I dont breed and will never have the setup to do so.

There's nothing better than wondering about something, asking and receiving the question so as to know.

Helps others to know this I guess as well because how many people probably attempt this, end up with 500k fry and realise they btit off more than they chewed and do dump into dams not knowing the consequensces.

Thanks again
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Collin

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeMon Dec 07, 2009 9:28 am

Hi Cliff

There are no dumb questions only dumb answers.

The thing that concerns me the most is, why is this not addressed by SAKKS, every month there is at least 10-20 new members welcomed in the KOISA that don't know the facts about koi or Bio-Diversity.
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeTue Apr 13, 2010 10:33 pm

Hi all
I have recently learned from a keeper (one of those) his words was "I have too much fish in my pond will dump some in monument dam". Now this is a smallish dam in the middle of Krugersdorp, I nearly freeked out and cautioned him not to do it rather take the fish to a pet shop. I have heard that this dam is full of koi however. I seem to believe that there is a law against doing it. But then laws are only for people who dont need them.
Yes I think SAKKS and Koisa through the written media should adress this issue in some way. I think it is a disgrace for people to do this. It is the same thing we have on the odd game farm where zebra and donkey are allowed to cross. Sis man how can one disgrace a specie like that.
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeTue Apr 13, 2010 10:37 pm

Hi Chris

Thanks for starting this tread I only just saw it. Glad to be able to post my views on this kind of issue. It is not just fish there are also lots of wrongs in the animal world. Referring in particular to inbreeding on smaller game farms.
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PostSubject: Koi in dams   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeFri Apr 30, 2010 6:07 am

Hi all

I agree totally that koi must never ever be thrown in rivers or certain dams. When a person refers to dams there are dams where koi are in and are enjoyed. For example we have a nursery with a dam and our zoo also has a mud dam with koi in. I suppose there are farmers with koi dams also. But these dams are protected in such a way that no one is allowed to take koi out or put koi in. A farmer put about 60 000 baby fry in his dam and when the dam dried up there where only 4 magoi in the remaining water.
But it is a koi keepers sin to put koi in (could I called them government owned) large dams or rivers.
In all fairness towards SAKKS, most koi keepers do not belong to the society and they cannot take responsibliity for non members. I have e - mailed our editor about putting a note in the KOISA magazine.

As some one said "you have to be cruel to be kind" and put the koi to sleep.

Mooi bly

Roy
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeFri Apr 30, 2010 6:39 am

Hi Roy,
It would be great if SAKKS writes a article about it, and inspire its members to keep a look out for this kind of thing. I also believe that if nobody wants it well then putt it out.
The dams you refer to would be known as all waters that form a part of our echo system.

Nice subject this, when I see my friend Prof G Verdoorn again I am going to ask him to write us a storie about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeFri Apr 30, 2010 7:40 am

Hi,

I also have never looked at this thread until this morning.

As mentioned above koi should never be dumped into dams or rivers. They carry disease and more importantly, as they are bottom feeders, they destroy the breeding areas of indigenous fish along the banks of the rivers and dams.

Looking back a few months in this thread I am a little surprised on the attacks/blame placed on SAKKS. Poor old SAKKS they seem to get the blame for everything ......

In all the years that SAKKS has existed it has always publicised and educated its members about the dangers of disposing of koi into dams and rivers. It has also educated its members about disposing of the water out of bags of new koi - especially those that have just been imported.

SAKKS may not have publicised this in every KOISA magazine or mentioned it at each and every meeting around the country but it has done it consistently over the years.

With all due respect to the biodiversity act and the possible banning of koi .... A well known and prominent Aqua Vet discussed this problem many years ago. He was not concerned at all as, in his opinion, koi have no natural camouflage and would soon be consumed by birds etc. The thread above about thousands and thousands of fry being dumped into a dam and only a very few survived seems to prove it.

Dumping koi of any size or age into our rivers is a stupid and irresponsible thing to do. But as the majority of "koi keepers" are not SAKKS members it is hardly fair to point fingers.

On a more sobering note - I read a scientific study from New Zealand about the control of carp in their rivers. New Zealand and Australia are highly sensitive to all things foreign - not only South Africans but also the carp in their rivers. (that's a joke - by the way now to find one of those funny things on the side - What a Face hope that worked)

To control the carp population it was proposed to introduce Koi Herpes Virus (KHV) into the rivers and dams where carp are found via the introduction of infected koi!

It makes sense - KHV only infects carp.

The problem of carp in our rivers is much the same as the rabbit population on Robin Island and in Australia. The spread of rats around the world. etc. It done and we have to deal with it. Carp were introduced into our rivers and dams long before koi were imported into this country.

We all know that the banning of koi is like shutting the door after the horse has bolted. The diseases koi suffer from are also found on other fish. Just think about many trout farms. How do they manage the water - many of them are situated on rivers so they divert the rivers through the farm and then out back into the river. There have been many devastating out breaks of Ich in our rivers - not because of koi but for other reasons.

Roy your concerns are genuine and they have got me thinking – I wonder if it would help to have a introductory pamphlet made for SAKKS. New members are welcomed and sent or given this pamphlet which has some basics about koi keeping. It need not be long but can included the big no-no about disposing of koi into rivers. Trouble here is costs.

Alternatively how about when new members are welcomed having a few basics attached to that column in KOISA. And keep this column permanently in KOISA?

Chris
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wayneb

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeFri Apr 30, 2010 12:37 pm

Just a short note as i dont have much time today.

Koi are not banned in Australia, its only banned from being imported. On koibito are very interesting threads about how the aussies are cross breeding koi from old koi stock with wild carp found it their rivers.

So the aussie koi lack the refinement and latest advancements made in Japan in their koi but the koi hobby is still alive and well in Aus. They are battleing to get their koi over the 65cm mark as that seems to be the growth limit with their stocks.

Ok, thats all from me.
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Roykoi



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PostSubject: SAKKS cares   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeFri Apr 30, 2010 6:48 pm

Hi all

I just would like to let you know that immediate action is been taken by SAKKS leadership to inform its members and all new members of the danger of dumping koi into dams and rivers. Chris Neaves has rewrite the koi Health and Nurition manual which is one the best works of the science of koi. I understand it will be used world wide. Although the new manual is almost ready for print they are going to add a article on this topic. Thank you Chris.
SAKKS secretary Maria Anna Botha has given a splendid idea to dry all the unwanted fry out and give them to the SPCA for cat food. What will we do without the womans brain.

Regards

Roy
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Neville

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeSat May 01, 2010 2:59 am

Hi all
Well that is great news many thanks for all the input.
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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeSat May 01, 2010 9:36 pm

Wow thanx guys ... this was really informative! I would of thought there would be nothing wrong in saving the little ones and giving them a sporting chance to survive ... without looking at the bigger picture!!
Thanx
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Cliff

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeMon May 03, 2010 8:26 am

I really am a genius when it comes to topics......lol
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Roykoi



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PostSubject: Unwanted fry topic   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeMon May 03, 2010 9:32 am

Hi all
Yes I must give Cliff credit for posting the topic of unwanted fry and a lot of good has came from it. Thanks Cliff

Regards

Roy
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Marius Bezuidenhout

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PostSubject: Re: Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!!   Dumping unwanted fry in dams question!! Icon_minitimeThu Oct 28, 2010 2:52 pm

A very interesting program on DSTV Ch 261 - NGwild called Monster Fish.

Not sure when it will be repeated again but worth watching. Interesting how one man can stuff up an eco system
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