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 Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision

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Colyn



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:44 am

These birds also nested in that unfinished pond ...



They also do not eat fish Wink but their relatives will come once the fish are there Wink

The image is incorrectly labeled Malachite ... it is actually a Pigmy Kingfisher.

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Colyn



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:49 am

Chris Neaves wrote:
Hi Colyn,

Have you re-inforced each layer of bricks in the ponds. Will a single layer of bricks be strong enough to hold the water pressure of a large pond?

What will you be sealing the ponds with?

Regards,
Chris


The bricks have a brickforce line in every second layer. With the ponds being in the ground and the backs well compacted I am confident the single line is enough ... fortunately the kois will not be making "bommies" in the ponds Smile

This construction will not be strong enough for swimming by humans.

The ponds will be plastered and then sealed with a sealer ... andy suggestions ?
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Colyn



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:17 am

wayneb wrote:
Quote:
2. Class 12 ... why ... your pumps must be monstrous stuff to generate 12 bar pressure.


I picked this class pipe because i am not planning to dig up my poind in 5 - 10 years when the normal waste pipe collapses. I had a 10 000L pond with the normal 110ml waste pipe as bottom drain 1.5m down. After two years the pipes was bend oval by the shear weight of the ground and the pipe was already discoloured. I asked around and the normal waste pipe is not suppose to be used deeper than 80cm underground and it only has a lifetime expectency of 10 years or so....so i decided to use class 12 seeing as my bottom drains is 3m below the surface and i never ever want to dig my pond up to try and fix a leaky bottom drain pipe.

Look man it is great that you can build your pond so cheap, all i am saying is that it sounds to good to be true as most koi keepers build their own koi ponds and i am sure most of them will say that their ponds cost them in the region of atleast R 1,50 to R R2 per liter water.


Ok pipe deformation can be a problem if you are in clay/turf soil ... my environment is sandy/gravel and once the soil have settled the pipes should not be stressed by the soil.

I am not so sure about that quoted lifespan on the uPVC pipes. Biggest mistake that many make is to buy the khaki coloured one and then allow it to be exposed to the sun ... the white one is UV resistant ... the khaki one is for sub-terrean use.

I do expect that some serious challenges may emerge as time goes on but overall I think I have escape routes for most. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:06 am

On your question about sealers:

Quite a lot of farmers only use salt in the plaster which is often sufficient to water proof.

My suggestion is to mix Sikalite or Coprox to your plaster combined with salt. If you add black oxide to your mix, you don't even have to seal, although it looks much better if you seal and it improves the waterproofing.

In respect of the sealer, you have three options in my opinion:

1. Acrylic non toxic water proof paints. There are quite a few on the market.

2. Butimine paints. They do not last as long but quite cheap.

3. Polyurerethane paints. The are much more expensive but very good. It is almost like a plastic layer. I use Durapond from Dura.

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Colyn



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:55 am

Thanks ... we will be sealing it with Coprox.
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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:53 pm

Very nice pictures

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Colyn



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:22 pm

Here are some shots of the Vegetation pond ...


The first chamber will contain shade netting and the second one is the sump for the pumps.




This shows the cascading chute from the middle pond to the Veggie pond.
This where I will try and get as much aeration as possible.
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Colyn



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:30 am

I spent the night reading a lot and one thing that became obvious ... advice on really BIG ponds are scarce.

The general information on filtering and water treatment is just not right for me and I am looking for people that have big ponds.

I am beginning to doubt if I will be able to get the correct water volume flow because to circulate my water volume in an hour will mean massive pumping Smile

Any advice will be appreciated.
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Pieter J de Villiers



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:40 pm

Colyn,

Sorry to say, but that ponds are going to leak!!!!!!! The weight of the water alone will crack them!

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Colyn



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:04 pm

Jeez ... your post really rattled me so I went back through the process and phoned a few friends ... the floors are re-enforced concrete of around 120mm and the soil in which the ponds are bedded is semi sandstone ... so the foundations is according to all information pretty stable. The walls have been backfilled and carefully compacted and every second layer is brick forced.

I am not too sure it will crack ... actually I am quite confident it wont.
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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:29 pm

Hi,
Question - did you cast the floors of the ponds in one go?

Using Coprox is a good idea. Leaks and cracks can be easily repaired.

In a large pond set-up you can get away with slower turnover rates. You will however need to make sure the cirulation within each pond is correct. i.e. each ponds inpurities will be eliminated and not re-circulated. Try to keep plants away from the koi. Koi love plants. They will chew them to bits, especially when they get bigger. Koi will pull the plants out of their containers and the soil will pollute the water making it difficult to see them. The suspended particles are difficult to get rid of.

Keep all your chambers open as much as possible to encourage water flow.

Make sure each chamber can abe cleaned easily.

Use large daimeter piping to and from the pumps to reduce frictional losses.

You can increase the effency of each chamber by getting the water to circulate within the chamber. A sort of vortex action. Place brushes or something similar against the walls to increase the surface area to trap the solids that will be spun outwards.

Do not worry about evaporation. Get waterfalls going. Even if you build a trickle tower/baki shower. You need to replace a certain amont of water each week. So if the water evaporates - no problem.

What is you water source - tap water or bore hole water.

Do you have a large garden to water?

Use barley straw to control the algae. Chemicals will become too expensive.

Perhaps it would have been a good idea to place plastic under your "streams" and just made a screed ontop. Long streams tend to crack. Even a very fine crack will lead to water loss.

You have wonderful bird life - be prepared to loose fish. The best ones are the ones to go first (I know from experience). If you cna create some balance between the bird life and you koi I think you have a wonderful pond in the making.

One other thought (for now) where does the rain water drain on the property? Will the pond get flooded?

Many more questions to come. But good luck.

Regards,
Chris
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Colyn



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:08 pm

Quote:

Hi,
Question - did you cast the floors of the ponds in one go?


Yes except the smaller pond ... we got violently interupted by a massive storm.

Quote:

Using Coprox is a good idea. Leaks and cracks can be easily repaired.


That is what I was told by a friend that is an engineer.

Quote:

In a large pond set-up you can get away with slower turnover rates.


I have decided that I will not worry now about the flow rates ... I will complete the ponds and check the flow rates in practice ... if it is too low then I will increase the pump capacities.

Quote:

You will however need to make sure the cirulation within each pond is correct. i.e. each ponds inpurities will be eliminated and not re-circulated.


Well the idea is that the water will end up in the vegetation pond and from there go through the shadecloth filter and then pumped back to the head. Does that seem right ?

Quote:

Try to keep plants away from the koi. Koi love plants. They will chew them to bits, especially when they get bigger. Koi will pull the plants out of their containers and the soil will pollute the water making it difficult to see them. The suspended particles are difficult to get rid of.


I have no intention of having any plants in the koi ponds ... I have been warned a lot about the problems with plants in the ponds.

Quote:

Keep all your chambers open as much as possible to encourage water flow.

Make sure each chamber can abe cleaned easily.


I will post more detailed shots of the two chambers.

Quote:

Use large daimeter piping to and from the pumps to reduce frictional losses.


The pumps are submersibles and they feed into 40mm ID pipe.

Quote:

You can increase the effency of each chamber by getting the water to circulate within the chamber. A sort of vortex action. Place brushes or something similar against the walls to increase the surface area to trap the solids that will be spun outwards.


I will see how the chambers work and keep you posted ... fortunately I have space if I need to expand with more chambers.

Quote:

Do not worry about evaporation. Get waterfalls going. Even if you build a trickle tower/baki shower. You need to replace a certain amont of water each week. So if the water evaporates - no problem.


I still have to construct the primary water starting point and will include as much as possible cascades in it.

Quote:

What is you water source - tap water or bore hole water.

Do you have a large garden to water?


I have a good borehole and over the past 15 years the garden has been tuned to be fairly conservative on the water. I have very few plants that needs lots of water and mostly indigenous stuff that goes with the flow of the environment. I think that is also why I have so many bird species in the garden.

Quote:

Use barley straw to control the algae. Chemicals will become too expensive.


Please explain this a bit better to me.

Quote:

Perhaps it would have been a good idea to place plastic under your "streams" and just made a screed ontop. Long streams tend to crack. Even a very fine crack will lead to water loss.


I will pay attention to this ... I have to construct the streams strong because there is a 100% chance that my dogs will get into it. Wink ... but I will heed to your advice and pay good attention to the construction.

Quote:

You have wonderful bird life - be prepared to loose fish. The best ones are the ones to go first (I know from experience). If you cna create some balance between the bird life and you koi I think you have a wonderful pond in the making.


I have decided that I will sort of use the vegetation pond as a decoy and will stock it well with smaller tilapia species and gold fish so that the birds can try their luck there. Wink ... with lots of water lilies and other plants the fish will have a chance.

The two ponds that are earmarked for the koi were made deep on purpose, one is 1.8m and the middle one is over 2 meters with straight sides that offers no wading opportunities. The vegetation pond is around 1.2m deep so herons etc. cannot wade there. I will keep an eye out for the kormorants and they will eat lead if they come to the garden.

One tiny worrying factor is the fact that we have some fish eagles on the farm and that might be a nasty experience if they decide to come and feast on the koi. However I have placed the ponds in such a way that I have limited the opportunity for a clean attack avenue and will complicate it more with pergolas if need be.

Quote:

One other thought (for now) where does the rain water drain on the property? Will the pond get flooded?


On this I paid special attention and the pond edges is raise above the surrounding land level to specifically keep stormwater and runoff out of the ponds. Final finishing of the edges is natural rock from the veld that is at least 150mm high and these will be cemented onto the edge to complete a waterproof ring around the ponds and also have around 50mm overhang on the pond side.

Quote:

Many more questions to come. But good luck.


Looking forward to it.

Than you very much for your input Chris.

My main objective is to make the ponds part of the environment and form part of the larger eco system.

You are welcome to go and look here ... http://forum.tripwired.co.za/index.php?topic=90.0 ... there is complete thread that contains shots of all the birds that I have photgraphed through my study window.
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Pieter J de Villiers



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:11 am

Colyn,

ek is nie hier om jou bou werk af te kraak nie, maar ek wil jou graag help om nie na die tyd jou hare uit jou kop uit te trek nie!

Quote:
The walls have been backfilled and carefully compacted and every second layer is brick forced.


Dit is goed en wel, maar op 'n enkel muur van 4 " is " brick forced" van geen waarde, en dit werk dus tien keer beter op "n dubbel muur (9") want dit bind die muur as 'n geheel.

" Backfilled" ek neem aan jy praat van die op vul van die spasie tussen die muur en die grond van die "grondvlak"
Wel, omdat dit baie warm daar by julle word in is die sandgrond geneig om uit te droog, dit veroorsaak dan krake in die onderlaag van die grond.
Jy praat van 'n storm., wat dink jy gaan gebeur as die water tussen die krake spoel?
Die krake gaan groter word en die grond gaan wegbreek en wegspoel.
Die drukking van die water ( ongeveer 990kg per 1000lt) gaan te groot vir die enkel muur wees en die dam gaan begin lek.
Onthou die grootste drukking is waar die muur op die fondasie staan.

Ek is nie 'n "engineer" nie, maar het al 'n paar damme gebou!

Ek pos 'n paar fotos hoe ek dit doen, en die dam was op 'n rots formasie gebou!
Ek glo daaraan om dit van die begin af dit reg te doen.


Let op die draad versterking.

Die gaping tussen die twee mure was later met (13mm kilp) beton gevul.

My raad aan jou is, spandeer liewer nou meer, en "smile" daarna.

Sterkte.

ps. Ons kan 'n wedenskap aangaan rakende die lekkery as jy wil!!!! lol!

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Colyn



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:02 am

Pieter ... ek beskou jou insetsels verseker nie in a negatiewe lig nie ... Wink Ek is al te lank in die tand om fyngevoelig te wees.

Die kans dat water in die krake kan begin spoel is baie swak ... voordat ek die betonwerk en steenwerk begin doen het die "rou" damme vir dae met water in gestaan na reenbuie ... glo my ... dis asof ek die damme uitgekerf het. Die grond is solid, dig en sanderig.

Die bodem las waar die mure op die vloer staan is goed versterk met draad, sterk sement mengsel en a skuins geplaasde baksteen ... ek sal later meer fotos opsit.

Dankie vir jou bydrae.

PS ... my Plan B is om te kyk wat doen die damme en as dit teveel kraak sal ek dit met staal draad uitvoer en "gunite".
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Colyn



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PostSubject: Re: Rhenosterkop Koiponds ... I have a vision   Sun May 18, 2008 10:53 am

We are now seriously into the finishing stages. Here are some shots of Pond #3 ... this will be mainly a vegetation filter/pond and I am banking on this pond to do the bulk of my water quality control.






















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